When is it legal to discriminate by sex in employment? I can think of some obvious examples (performers, dancers, etc) or jobs like bathroom/lockerroom attendant. Could say a clinic only hire healtcare workers of a particular sex if patient privacy was a concern?
Many discrimination laws only apply when a company (or parent company) has more than a certain number of employees (50 I believe under some federal guidelines). For those businesses, most forms of discrimination (or selective hiring) is legal.
In the UK there are certain jobs which for which an applicant’s gender can be specified.
An example would be an outreach worker for deprived Muslim women, or abused teenage girls… in these cases it is permissable to specify a female applicant as a male would be less able to do the job as a result of his gender.
When gender is a BFOQ, a bona fide occupational qualification. But it’s an affirmative defense, so the burden is on the employer to demonstrate that the discrimination is necessary, that without it, the essence of the business is lost.
Examples of BFOQs include, as you suggest, patients being cared for by a certain gender due to patient privacy concerns; janitors cleaning restrooms when the restrooms can’t be closed (again, a privacy issue). I believe that Hooters used a BFOQ defense to the lawsuits against it by men who were not hired to be waiters. The argument would be that the essence of Hooters’ business is scantily clad women serving men, and so the essence of the business would be lost if Hooters were required to hire men. They ended up settling the case, so their theory wasn’t tested.
For one thing, it’s legal wherever there is no law against such discrimination, or where the legal system mandates it (as in many interpretations of Sharia law). In Saudia Arabia, for example, men and women are generally not permitted to interact unless they are related by blood or marriage. There are separate hospitals and schools for men and women, and women aren’t permitted to work at or attend men’s facilities.
It would help immensely if you could limit the scope of your question to a particular jurisdiction.
Your “obvious” examples are not likely at all.
Every place I’ve worked, the bathrooms were cleaned by whichever janitor was on duty, regardless of gender. They just posted a sign on the door “temporarily closed for cleaning” and waited for it to empty out before cleaning it.
And during medical treatment, I’ve been seen unclothed by doctors, nurses, orderlies, etc. of various genders. I was far more concerned with their medical competence than my privacy.
Generally, here in the USA the medical profession uses that procedure – patients are treated by the most skilled doctor available, without any attempt to match genders. Privacy is far less important than healing the patient.
A restroom attendant is NOT a janitor. They don’t have the option of waiting until the restroom is empty, because their job is to be there while it’s in use.
I meant staff that would be in the bathroom/lockerroom while it’s in use.
True, but a patient’s requests for a same-sex provider are supposed to be honered if at all possible (and of course the patient can always decline treatment if their request isn’t honored).
Well the bathroom/lockerroom attendant is obvious. This is not to be confused with custodial services. These are the folks that in fancy restaurants, will offer you a towel or cologne as you leave the restroom. I’ve only seen this type of thing in the movies, but I would expect this to be a gender occupational thing.
Haven’t seen one of those in years!
Where do they still exist? And Why???
The race and sex discrimination law is 15 or more employees, under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Also, the company must affect interstate commerce, very broadly defined.
There are lots of laws that kick in at 50 employees, but this one kicks in considerably sooner. Also, state laws may be more restrictive (but not more permissive).
So under federal law, I can picture a very small healthcare facility perhaps being able to discriminate by sex. Once you are talking 15+ employees, though, it seems like the clinic would be expected to handle patient privacy requests by some means other than discriminating, such as scheduling multiple staff. Especially if the clinic accepts any type of insurance, I’d expect the interstate commerce aspect of the law to apply.
Regarding the restroom attendants, I saw one maybe 3 years ago at a fancy restaurant in NYC. As to why? You might as well ask why Chuck-E-Cheese has dancing animatronic characters. It’s about creating a dining experience that people pay money for.
Of course, it’s sort of a necessity that you have as many female bathroom attendents as male ones, unless for some reason you have an uneven number of bathrooms.
This sort of thing is common in Thailand, and annoying. They always want a tip. I can find my own towel after washing my hands, thank you. They will even – I kid you not – come up behind you while you’re standing at the urinal and give you a Thai massage on your back. Quite common. I’ve never gotten used to that and always ask them to go away. These are always guys, but you do see women cleaning the restrooms all the time while still in use.
But gender discrimination is the norm here. Completely common for want ads to specify sex, age etc, for a job, no matter what the job is.
Restaurant attendants seem to be a dying breed. That said, they do serve a purpose. People trash restrooms in even the nicest of places. Having an attendant helps to stop that sort of thing. You also see them in clubs because they help to stop the kinds of things people do in club bathrooms when there is no attendant (drugs, sex etc.) as well as the aforementioned general trashing.
As an aside, attendants usually are not employees of the restaurant but are contracted out from a service. Their wages are the tips they hope to receive and they pay for the colognes, lotions etc. they make available to customers out of their own pocket. In other words, it sucks to be a bathroom attendant.
you are correct, except that a bathroom attendant makes more than you think he does; i say ‘he’ specifically, as women are, in general, horrible tippers. at the (upscale, though not quite like it used to be, but still not psuedo-upscale) club where i work, the men’s bathroom attendant pulls in the neighbourhood of $400 {minus costs} cash on an average saturday night; the women’s attendant pulls around $250 cash, again minus cost, on the same night. now, the men’s attendant is more likely to have to break up a fight, too often between guys who have their cocks still hanging out – but the women’s attendant is more likely to have to clean up after thrice or more the pukers of the men’s - and supply pads/tampons as well.
so the woman has a higher overhead, dirtier job, and lower payout than the men’s equivalent… but it’s a job that pays by gratuity… and men don’t get to tip the women’s attendant… so what can you do?
You’d think so, but the last three times I’ve seen one, it’s been a lady of the female persuasion. Twice in a gents and once in a unisex bathroom.
That happened to me once too! I was at a restaurant in Si Racha, and went into the toilets to take a piss, and the dude was hiding in one of the stalls. As I was taking my leak, he pounced. I was not expecting this. He grabbed my shoulders and I jumped out of my skin and nearly decked him, and only narrowly avoided pissing down my leg. Quite put me off my stride if you know what I mean. Hilarious.
But not as bad as my buddy in Cairo, who was just finishing up pissing in a urinal when a guy came out of nowhere and dabbed the end of his cock with toilet paper… :eek:
Yes, quite disconcerting if you’re not used to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Q.E.D.
A restroom attendant is NOT a janitor. They don’t have the option of waiting until the restroom is empty, because their job is to be there while it’s in use.
The only place I’ve seen one on a regular basis was at the local strip club Trump’s (on the other side of 8 Mile and not associated with the Donald). He has a very nice set up. Warm towels, lotions, shoe shine service and fresh mints! It’s kind of strange that there is guy working the bathroom because everywhere else the joint is packed with naked woman offering to rub against you 
, for a fee. I’m fairly sure that there is a law that keeps them from working in the bathroom and that it has nothing to do with discrimination. In fact, I’m certain that the owners would prefer to have a woman work in there, imagine the tips! :eek:
In Germany I’ve seen grim elderly women running the men’s bathroom
If I ever land up in Cairo I’m going to be very careful