Strongly disagree. If we expect them to follow the rules, they should be able to take advantage of all of them too.
And I strongly disagree. They cannot put people on Ignore. This is along those lines.
And we can’t put mods on ignore. So…equity.
I was not coerced to say anything.
I opened my PC one morning to my final post of the previous evening and saw it was a post in which I had insulted a poster. As I scrolled back, I discovered that it was not in the Pit. I replaced the insult with an apology.
A few minutes later, I opened my mail to see Jonathan Chance’s missive. I immediately replied that I was guilty of the insult and recommended that I be given a Warning. No “coercion” (however that was supposed to work) was applied. In the post in this thread where I talked about “deleting” the post, I meant that I had removed the insult, not that I had actually physically removed the post. The apology is still there, the last time I looked.
I understand the argument about my replacing an insult with an apology, but claims that I was forced to do anything is speculation that is not based on facts.
So I think we can all agree (even tom) that he did something wrong. What we need now is a statement from head mods about:
Is it a violation of mod rules to delete your own post that violates board rules after 5 minutes?
If a post is in violation of board rules, can you still be modded even if you erase the offending post (both mods and peons)?
And in the interest of transparency, I would like to know the outcome of the discussion among mods. Obviously everyone knows what tom and I’m not really interested if he gets a note or a warning or is even “punished” but I’d at least like to know what was decided in what rules mods are expected to follow regarding their own or others’ posts that violate board rules. I mean I assume if a mod did this on an ongoing basis then they would be removed as a mod right?
And FTR even if deleting the post was wrong I understand why tom did it and commend him that that he recommended himself for a warning.
The trick there, is, you’d need to find a new moderator for the forum. And that could be difficult, because you’re going to have two basic categories of candidates: people who like reading and posting in the Pit, and are unlikely to want to give that up in order to moderate it. Or people who don’t like reading and posting in the Pit, and aren’t likely to accept a position where they’re required to do so.
Also, y’all remember we do this for free, right? All the work we put into keeping this site running, for nothing, and you think we should “pay a price” on top of that?
Sorry, no.
Actually he said,
He said he should not do it again, not that he will not, or any other mod for that matter. Since this board loves nitpicking down to the minutia I see a difference.
I agree. They are just people and should be allowed to vent, as posters, just like any of us.
And we cannot put them on ignore. So I think we are all even on that front.
Also, going back to the whole mods can’t “warn” other mods or themselves because of the software then what is to stop some hypothetical mod from going on a rampage and racking up 3 warnings in a month? Since there is no way to keep track. Truthseeker2 just got suspended for that exact thing.
Is anyone keeping tally of the mods infractions?
As noted above Twickster noted herself when she called another person an asshole while posting as a mod when it clearly should have been a warning. I believe it was Twickster who gave Guadere a note or warning, I don’t remember which, but it was from that ATMB thread where someone asked if mods had ever modded other mods.
So mods modding other mods, or themselves, is not an unheard of thing.
So do the mods just get free reign?
Because if no one is watching the watchmen then the watchmen will become watches.
Also, anyone who knows VB, is there a feature that can be turned on so that mods getting modded will get kept track of? Because that seems unfair as well.
After a godawful long discussion in the mod loop…
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I have de-edited Tom’s post
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I have issued him a mod note for personal insults
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Moderators are subject to the same rules as other posters and can be sanctioned for breaking the rules
Yes you can still be modded. Earlier in this thread someone linked to a post by SkipMagic where he/she warned a poster who used an ethnic slur and then edited it out. But since the mods can see every version of a post SM was able to see the insult and gave the poster a warning even though it’s not there now.
Edited after JC’s recent post.
But I would still like to know if anyone is keeping track of mod infractions, since the system cannot, since they are “subject to the same rules as other posters and can be sanctioned for breaking the rules”.
Exactly the correct decision, in my opinion.
Would you like cupcake or a gold star on your forehead?
I believe the mods have some rule or agreement that they can’t start threads pitting other posters, but they can participate in threads other members have started. I’m fine with that. The mods should have the right to participate as regular members and blow off steam. I’m confident they have the ability to separate their personal feelings from their duties to enforce the rules.
Good decision.
I don’t think he did say that but even if he did, how are we to know it is true?
Does he agree? His words are of somebody who is just annoyed that he got caught.
Fair enough, but what about the *liar *dispute? What is the moderator consensus on that?
Have you ruled that accusing someone of *pretending *isn’t an insult, isn’t the same as accusing him of lying? Is that the official word of Mod?
Can the rest of us accuse each other of pretending, and not get a note or a warning for it?
I agree with all of this. But can the mods please comment on the abuse of mod powers to alter his own words after the 5-minute window? That’s concerning.
This seems reasonable - thanks. With the caveat that the rule of “we don’t allow editing of posts except for a five minute window” should also apply to mods, which, I think we all agree, is the source of most of the problem with the first problem Peter Morris mentioned.
Also, a point of clarification -
Since he was only mod-noted, does this mean he will not refrain from doing it again? I have seen enough times that the mods say “it was only a mod note” as opposed to a warning that I think it should be a bit more explicit. I have learned the dangers of assuming that I understood what tomndebb meant when he said something, only to find later that he meant something else.
Also, and ISTM more importantly, can the other issue raised be addressed? I believe the guideline in the past was that something became an accusation of lying when it contained two elements -
[ol][li]The statement was wrong, and[/li][li]The statement was made deliberately. Not simply in error, but intentional.[/ol]I hope very much that this can be addressed. [/li]
If it helps, and since I have had issues with tomndebb’s moderation on the point in the past, I will repost something Left Hand of Dorkness said earlier and see if that can be the basis for the discussion.
Regards,
Shodan
ETA - also please let me know if I should start another thread to discuss the issue. 
*The dog clears his throat. *
Well done. Thanks to all the mods for arriving at the correct conclusion.
A moderator, not acting ex cathedra, should not avail himself or herself of moderator powers to take an action not available to a mortal poster. Justice should follow the same trajectory regardless of Extra Special Mod Powers.
Yeesh … I can see why tomndebb deleted that post … God almighty … can we re-delete it now? That’s just awful …
People calling for moderators to treat other moderators like they treat posters are tilting at windmills. It’s not going to happen. It’s against human nature. These are their colleagues, with whom they have to maintain a working relationship. They are not going to be nearly as quick to reprimand them as they would an ordinary poster.
It’s worth having threads of this sort from time to time just to keep things a bit honest and prevent abuses from getting completely out of hand. But moderators are always going to get cut some extra slack.
It’s just another one of those tiny imperfections of life. The world will go on.