So what is the proper response?
No I didn’t. I used exactly the words I intended to use.
I would recommend ignoring insensitive comments. Openly hostile comments (like the ones at the University of Oklahoma) should be dealt with but I don’t think you’re interested in drawing a line.
So your solution to the problem is to ignore it? How exactly is that supposed to get the offending party to change/stop?
Holy crap. I’m afraid I was too gentle. I just checked out his links to students using violence to silence their enemies. I don’t want to trivialize violence, I thought. Certainly it’s bad when misogynists threaten to kill women, or actually go on shooting sprees, or when bigots shoot up synagogues, or call in bomb threats, or do any number of other violent acts. I’d be a hypocrite if I’m condoning similar violence by today’s college students.
SO I looked at his links. When he says, “In reality they are attempting to silence the speaker, and sometimes using violence to do so,” he runs into two problems, one grammar-based and the other vocabulary-based:
- The grammar-based problem is his choice of verb tense. His first link goes to an attack on Pat Buchanan in 2005. His second link goes to–and I’m not making this up, look for yourself–an incident in 1978. Compare his thesis about Kids These Days and the onset of censhorship on campus to my thesis about Kids Always Try Dumb Things. His links support my thesis.
- The vocabulary-based problem is his choice of the word “violence.” Before I continue, ask yourself, what are you imagining? Bombs? Guns? Something less sinister, like a punch in the face? Something less direct, like a bomb threat, or slashed tires?
Or are you thinking about ranch dressing?
Because the worse of the two attacks he mentioned consisted entirely of Pat Buchanan getting some creamy salad dressing tossed on him (I can’t verify that it’s ranch, maybe someone with better google skills can do so). The less horrifying attack, the 1978 one, consisted entirely of water being tossed on EO Wilson.
Now, because some people have real reading trouble, let me say this clearly: I DO NOT APPROVE OF ANYONE THROWING SALAD DRESSING ON PAT BUCHANAN. Well, okay, to the extent that I think that’s funny, it’s because I’m a bad person, and I recognize that. But c’mon. That’s some seriously disingenuous summarizing of his links, and if you’re going to give me shit about the way I summarized the OP, I do hope you’ll follow his links and give him the level of shit he deserves for his summaries.
Yes. I don’t believe that the university should get involved. It is not their responsibility to ensure that their students are never offended. I believe that non-official actions such as peer pressure are more appropriate.
So, if someone stands next to the main entrance to the school and shouts the N word at every black person who walks by, the University should do nothing about the problem. (yes, I realize I am making an extreme example)
Yes they should do something. I’d refer you to my previous distinction between insensitive and openly hostile.
So what you seem to be saying is that if someone makes Racially derogatory remark that on a scale of 1 to 10 is a 10, something needs to be done. If the remark only scores a 4,5, or 6, nothing should be done. This seems to indicate to me, that to you, lesser offense are not worth addressing. Why do you think racism is ok as long as it doesn’t score a 10?
So to put it plainly, I did not say any of the things you claimed I said. Again.
As for the complaint that throwing water and other things at people was disingenuously described as violence, the law disagrees with you. Throwing water or other things at a person can be a physical assault. My father once sat on a jury for a case involving something like that. If you disagree, complain to your politicians.
I don’t suppose you’d care to explain what you’re talking about.
I neither stated nor implied that I think that racism is OK and I’d appreciate it if you didn’t infer that I did. I stated that not all racial comments rise to the level of requiring action by the university. If I were told that I danced pretty good for a white boy, I wouldn’t expect that any official action would be necessary. Would you?
Oh, sorry, I got you mixed up with John Mace
Ok, but the bottom line is even if you do not think racism is “ok” you still don’t want anything to be done about it, except, peer pressure, right? See, I think if you — really — thought it was a problem you would want something to be done. So please forgive me (sarcasm) for making the wrong assumption about you.
And I do want something done. I want society to change. I don’t want universities to censor mildly offensive speech.
Consider yourself forgiven.
What do you think a straw man is, if not “exaggerating for effect”? Please don’t tell us you honestly think that, in a debate, there is a difference?
Well perhaps that such comments are not directed at you is why you consider them “mildly” offensive.
Plus, a few “mildly offensive” moments a day add up over a lifetime, and the picture it paints isn’t pleasant.
Transporter accident.
In a great many cases, yeah. A guy self-publishes a book full of hateful racist stuff: what do you think we should do about it? Censor the book? Put the man in stocks in the town square? Raid the bookstores at night and seize all the copies? Or…write scathing reviews, condemnatory of the book?
Peer pressure is often the only thing that can be done legally. We’re all doing it to each other here. The SDMB Mods aren’t going to kick any of us out for our differing views. We’re left with no other power to use against each other than remonstrance.
Yes, there’s a big difference. A straw man is a serious false attribution of intent. When a conservative Republican says, “Democrats don’t really want blacks to achieve political power,” that’s a straw man. It is (to put it gently) a fucking lie, put forward with the intent of being believed.
When a conservative Republican says, “Obama is wiping his ass with the constitution,” that’s an exaggeration, and no one believes it to be literally true. It isn’t even intended to be believed as literally true.
Or perhaps it’s because not all insults are the same, as you so adequately pointed out with your admittedly “extreme” example.