Great Debates? Wow.
Phil, what is your opinion, please? We would value it greatly.
I’d like to respond to the many people who have said that cat owners need only train their cats appropriately, and the furniture scratching problem will be solved. My experience has been that it just ain’t that easy.
Our first 2 cats were acquired before we were married. They were not declawed. They were indoor only when there was no way to let them in and out, and indoor/outdoor when we could leave a window open. We attempted to train them, but as we both worked very long hours we could not be consistent. We resigned ourselves to clipping their nails weekly and tried to ignore the increasingly shredded appearance of our sofa.
When we adopted our two current cats, we debated the claw issue. We decided to give training a shot. We had 3 or 4 months before it was time to have them neutered. Now, this time, I was a stay-at-home mom, so I figured I could do this properly. I had spray bottles at the ready in every room. We had several different things for them to scratch on. At the slightest sound of scratching, I would stop them with the spray and take them to one of the scratching posts and mimic scratching with their paws. I did this consistently. It didn’t work.
Perhaps they preferred the funiture because it smelled like us? (Both cats are extremely affectionate and have, from the start, slept with the kids, usually sharing the pillow.) I don’t know. In any case, I was not prepared to sacrifice our uphoulstered furniture, or my mother-in-law’s hand quilted comforters, or anything else to their need to scratch. Yes, it was a selfish decision, but isn’t the act of keeping an animal as a pet in and of itself a selfish act? These aren’t barn cats. Their sole purpose is to provide us with companionship and the undeniable pleasure of snuggling up with a purring kitty.
Does anyone know anything about CLAW COVERS?
I wasn’t going to respond to this thread, especially after reading the . . . er, passionate responses, but since you asked my opinion, I’ll give it.
We have three cats at home. None have been declawed. By and large, they only claw on two things besides the several scratching posts we provide: the area rug in the living room, and the speaker cabinet for my bass amplifier. Other than that, they claw their toys, scratching posts, and, occasionally, each other. We also clip their claws regularly, a process which involves two people and a lot of loose fur.
My personal opinion, aside from issues of ethics and cruelty, is that I would no sooner declaw a cat than I would perform one of those “de-barking” operations on a dog. I, however, unlike many people, accept the occasional claw mark on my stuff as part of the cost of cat ownership. (Now, when they puke on the carpet, that really frosts my chaps.)
Absent any medical evidence that it harms the cat, I can’t simply condemn it on ethical grounds; my ethics are not everyone’s. But I personally find it difficult to justify; if I wanted a pet without claws, I’d get a different pet.
I would have to recommend not declawing the kitten.
It is a cruel thing to do, and it seems rather pointless. Cat’s use their claws for a number of things besides destroying furniture. They use them to balance, groom, scratch themselves etc. My cats play catch with them. When you toss a soft toy at them they will jump and catch it with their claws. Also, just IMHO but declawed cats seem to bite a lot.
Anyway, besides the cruelty, it’s just not necessary. There are tons of types of scratch posts out there. My cat, Ivy, loves the sisal kind of scratch post. She scratches it about 10 times a day. Everytime she walks by she gives it a scrap and stretches on it. She never scratches anything else.
Lib and Edlyn, It sounds like you are very responsible pet owners. It’s great you have yours leash trained. I’m sure you will do the right thing.
This discussion has brought up some larger questions in my mind about the moral issue of keeping any animal as a pet. I have started a separate thread here to avoid highjacking this one, and would appreciate any responses.
Yeah, sorry about that, Lib. I saw this thread when it was just the OP, with no responses. I considered saying something like, “Please focus on the first part of the question first, since he posted it in GQ for a reason.”
Then I decided against it. If I had had any idea that feelings on this ran so hot, I would have posted.
Oh, well. At least you got a couple of GQ answers. If you decide to declaw, come on back to GQ and re-open the topic, but without the ethical part.
-manhattan
Guinastasia asked, Does anyone know anything about CLAW COVERS?
I asked our vet about them when we were pondering the declawing process. She didn’t recommend them. Now, having covers would have provided her with income for the life of the cat, as I assume they have to be replaced regularly, (as opposed to the one time fee for declawing) so I have no reason to doubt her recommendation.
I, too, would be curious to hear from someone who has used them. Did you remove them regularly to clip the nails? Did this require a trip to the vet, or could you do it yourself? Did the cat’s seem to mind the covering? (I imagine they could chew them off if they tried.)
Is covering the nails, and thus preventing the cat from using them, any less cruel than removing them?
I have always been highly against declawing. I have four cats, and they are trained not to scratch up my furniture. Although some of them are as stubborn as all hell, nevertheless they do not ruin any of my property.
In addition to all of the reasons mentioned above, declawing can cause back problems for the cat later in life. Everyone has seen a cat stretch its back by digging its claws into the ground and arching itself. Remove a cat’s front claws and it can no longer do this. I don’t remember the specific kinds of spine disorders that can result from this, so I will have to ask my vet again.
MR
Is your cat spayed/neutered? If it is, then you don’t want a cat, you want a ball of fur with claws but no testicles/uterus.
You might say that de-clawing is a selfish decision but fixing is not. Why do we fix cats, though? Because we don’t want to have to deal with the large number of cats that would result from the inevitably uninhibited fornication of able-bodied felines. You could just leave the cat in the house when she’s in heat.
My cat is de-clawed (she was when I got her), and I don’t know that I’d have it any other way. Those of you who have been successful in training your cats not to scratch (or to do anything, for that matter) are a step ahead of me.
Dr. J
I’ve had cats all my life. Only one was declawed (my ex insisted - eventually got rid of him, kept the cat)
Spike had no front claws, never a problem with the other, clawed cats, so the fact that you have one with claws and one without shouldn’t be a factor - as a matter of fact, Spike wasn’t battered around even with 4 other clawed cats in the house. While he didn’t CLAW things, he DID chew them up quite often.
SOME cats like to claw more than others, SOME deal well with being trained to only claw certain ok things. Most of mine, simply picked the one thing they liked the best and tore it to ribbons.
and about all the folks who state “just keep them inside” - stuff happens. when I just had the 2 cats (and they lived to be 19 years and 18 years old, by the way), they were primarily indoor cats. However, one managed to slip out one day unnoticed (the door didn’t close all the way or something) and was gone for several days. fortunately, it was the one with claws and attitude.
you don’t want clawing? buy a fish.
We have not bought this kitten. If we don’t take him or her, we cannot know what fate awaits. We aren’t talking about going out to a pet shop here.
See the full story.
Lib…by all means get the kitten, but please don’t declaw her. It’s just not right. It violates a cat’s essential nature.
What about neutering and spaying? Well, if we didn’t have unwanted cats and dogs choking our animal shelters I would never neuter or spay a pet. But there are too many dogs and cats out there that can’t find a home…not neutering would mean millions of homeless cats and dogs, it would be cruel. The only alternative to neutering/spaying is the widespread killing of kittens and puppies.
Neutering/spaying may be cruel, but it is manifestly less cruel than widespread euthanasia. Declawing is cruel, and it is not manifestly less cruel than having your sofa ruined. Besides, while there are some cats who can’t seem to stop clawing, MOST are not untrainable, many don’t even need training and just don’t claw the furniture.
If you want an fuzzy animal with no claws that can live inside and use a litter box, how about a rabbit? My sister had one that was litter-box trained, it knew its name, it would come when you called it, it liked to sleep on the bed with her. A rabbit would be perfect for those who want a companion but are terrified of a cat’s carnivorous claws. Or you could get a ferret…but I’ve never trusted ferrets. I keep waiting for them to grab hold with their teeth and never never let go until they die. I trust cats, but ferrets? Never.
I agree. My one cat has escaped many times. She’s pulled a screen open and jumped out the window. She ripped a hole in the screened in porch and jumped out. While in the basement, she jumped 10 feet and squeezed out a small hole above a makeshift door. Now she was free in the garage/lobby area (up and down duplex). Somehow (i guess she sneaked in unnoticed) she ended up in the neighbor above me’s apartment. She then ran out and stayed in the garage. It’s funny because when she does get outside she just runs to the front door and cries until someone lets her in, or she hides in the front bushes.
Lemur, thanks for the advice. Please understand that we have not gone out searching for a pet. Hence, why not get a rabbit doesn’t apply here. We are simply taking in a kitten that was born to a stray that would otherwise go to whatever fate. We will give the kitten a loving home. He’ll have a big brother and everything. But our furniture does mean a lot to us. Yes, it’s not alive, but it is a product of our toil. It is not meaningless to us. (Maybe it’s my own background of poverty that helps me to appreciate the fruits of my labor.)
Edlyn consulted the vet this morning. Our decision, at this point, is to declaw the kitten at twelve weeks if he or she has not adapted to the ideas we’ve seen here by then.
12 weeks is early to tell if it’s going to be destructive though. Kittens are extremely more rambuncious (sp) than cats. If you’re going to do this then i suggest at least buying a couple different types of scratch posts/surfaces. There is one out that is cardboard and only a few bucks so it’s worth a try. Also one of my cat’s as i said earlier loves sisal. So please give it some options and I hope it will leave your furniture alone and you won’t need to declaw it.
Thanks, lunapark. Like I said, we will try various things, including the sisal. The vet we consulted is the local area’s most trusted and respected vet, who comes in at odd hours for emergencies and such, and still sees you without an appointment. We trust his judgement on the matter of twelve weeks. But who knows, maybe Runt won’t claw anything, including Jane.
So de-clawing cats is actually legal in the United States? In the UK, it has always been illegal.
Just out of interest, do any other countries do this sort of thing?
Ummm… I have two declawed cats and they stretch like this all the time.
That said, I doubt I’d declaw if I got a kitten. Ardy, my 12 year old orange tabby, was declawed when I got him as a kitten simply because I thought that it was as necessary as neutering. I was 18 years old, and I just didn’t think about NOT doing it as every cat I’d ever know was declawed. Teddy, on the other hand, is a stray. He showed up declawed, so I had no control over it.
I’ve had about a gazillion people on this board tell me how you can’t let declawed cats outdoors, but Ardy’s been going outside sans claws for his entire life. He climbs trees & fences. He catches mice, moles, and the occasionally bird. He gets in cat fights and comes home none the worse for wear.
To be honest, I just don’t think that there’s many things out there that spell doom for a cat without claws. If a dog chases a cat, the cat RUNS. It goes up a tree, or over a fence. It does NOT turn around and fight the dog! If it did, I’m fairly certain it would lose regardless of if it had claws or not.
My #1 concern about my outdoor cats is cars. That, IMO, is a MUCH bigger threat than the cat not being able to defend itself.
Still, I wouldn’t declaw unless I saw a great need for it. Contrary to a lot of people on this thread, I would agree that destroying furniture, clothing, etc. is a “great need.” My cats seem happy and healthy without claws, and I don’t think it’s a cruel practice at all.
Jumping back a minute to the debate about clawless cats climbing trees. I have seen a declawed cat climb many trees. I fact I know of a de-footed cat that can climb trees(got locked in a freezer for a night and lost all but one back foot.) Basically if you have a small enough tree(6 inch diameter or less) it can jump-hug the tree with its front paws, and push with its back foot. Looks very similar to the way those professional log climbers do it with a rope and spiked boots.