And a real bummer when the seizure is caused by something other than epilepsy where five minutes might have made a difference between living and dying - like a drug overdose.
I was in Britain recently - on a train in London, with someone from Canada. One of the other passengers was passed out drunk. His companion (also rather impared) started yelling “he isn’t breathing” - train was stopped by someone else, conductor came back, train restarted, ambulance met very drunk guy at the next station (he was breathing, just very drunk).
I was telling the Canadian that the whole scenario was really unlikely in the U.S. because very few of us would saddle a stranger with ambulance and hospital costs for what was very likely a stomach pumping - if not just a “strong coffee and sober up” She was astounded - don’t people die? Yep, probably. But my guess is that an ambulance ride and a stomach pump in the ER will set you back $2k at a minimum - likely much more - you don’t call the ambulance lightly on behalf of a stranger.
For six years I was caregiver to my stroke survivor, entirely bedridden, Mom in law, in our home. Near the end she had a seizure, the PSW was with her and freaked out and was standing at the end of the bed screaming. I raced to the room walked immediately up to the bed, put my hand on her arm, and spoke her name. The seizing stopped the moment I touched her, she opened her eyes and looked right at me. She had two more that day, both times, simply touching her somehow interrupted it. (Of course the Dr was in and her meds were changed and she was okay afterward, though still in decline. She passed within the month.)
Sorry, I can’t get on board with this advice. If the PSW hadn’t freaked out, and just stepped to the bed and touched her perhaps the episode could have been foreshortened, in my mind.
My son had seizures as a toddler - febrile not a big deal seizures - but I wouldn’t want to try and read a medalert bracelet on someone seizing. Now, granted, I’m at the age where I should wear my glasses and often don’t, but reading anything while its moving now is difficult at best. And on thing the OP has right, you don’t try and restrain a person having a seizure - holding an arm tight to read a medalert bracelet seems like a good way to get a broken nose.
By the way, that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t look - just that I wouldn’t fault anyone who decided that they couldn’t read it and got the paramedics there ASAP instead.
You repeatedly say not to touch someone but then say to use common sense.
A thrashing person is in danger of striking objects on the floor like the corner of a wall or other solid objects. They’re also in danger of repeatedly striking their head on the floor so a coat or sweater works nicely as padding. But common sense tells you that you have to lift their head to do this. People work in all manner of occupations and I can’t imagine letting someone thrash around on the floor of a machine shop full of sharp pieces of metal and God knows what kind of gunk. They’d wake up in a sea of oily lacerations covered in blood.
And I don’t know of a single TV show in my lifetime that demonstrated what you’re warning against. Maybe you can cite that just for discussion purposes.
It’s not that your advice is unwarranted but where is this coming from? I was taught this in grade school and that was the 60’s.
Here’s a thread on the Dope about this very issue.
More and more people in this country are uninsured. Seizures look extremely scary, but they’re rarely emergencies. Unless you’re willing to help them pay for their treatment, if you know someone who has seizures, please, ask them what they would prefer, and abide by their wishes.
:rolleyes: Maybe, just MAYBE, you should take the word of people who actually suffer from this condition.
The onus is upon the person who has seizures to identify themselves as such, clarify how to identify a seizure, and advise of the desired protocol if you don’t want people to judge for themselves what to do. Even then, no one is under any obligation to pay for your medical treatment because they decided to err on the side of caution with your life.
I understand why this is an unfair inconvenience and why you don’t want emergency services called, but if the person does not call and you die, your troubles are over and theirs begin, so it is and should not be entirely up to you. They must use their own judgment, not blindly follow any set of instructions you’ve given in advance.
Whether or not you have health insurance is your personal business and does not change the fact that your life cannot be replaced for any amount of money.
Well, don’t have a seizure around me 'cause I’m calling 911.
Unless I know you and you previously told me not to.
When I was a kid we had a dog with epilepsy. Mom said not to touch it because being touched was painful during a seizure, so just try to be calm and reassuring. And clean up the poop afterwards without making a fuss, because the dog couldn’t help it.
If you know someone who has seizures you should follow their instructions - assuming that at some point they’ve said “seems like we’ve been hanging out a lot, I want you to know I have epilepsy and might have a seizure while we are together sometime. If I do, don’t freak out, its normal for me, and this is what I want you to do.”
If you don’t know why they are having a seizure because they are a stranger or acquaintance who hasn’t shared their health concerns with you, and they aren’t wearing or you can’t read their medalert bracelet, you err on the side of health caution, not financial caution, and call 911 - its probably no big deal, the paramedics will arrive after the seizure is ended, the person having the seizure refuses transport, and while there is a bill, it isn’t a huge hospital bill. On the chance that it isn’t no big, five minutes can mean someone’s life and even if it doesn’t save it, a well intentioned stranger doesn’t need to wonder if waiting five minutes is what killed the guy they wanted to help.
Well I’m informing everyone here right now: if you’re ever with me in person when I have a seizure, please do NOT call for an ambulance unless said seizure lasts longer than five minutes.
I have dentures now because someone who was informed about my condition, and gave them basic instructions decided that TV knew better and shoved a wooden spoon in my mouth.
My OP was a bit hyperbolic, but when you’ve had dentures since junior highschool because of TV and folk wisdom, you get bitter.
Of course, the stranger on the street isn’t going to know that my seizure doesn’t warrant calling 911, but they should at least not break my teeth.
I’m so sorry that this happened to you. This is why people without any medical knowledge or common sense should just call 911 right away, not try to do anything. The faster paramedics get on the scene, the less time for people to do dumb things.
What about the theory that you should stick something (preferably something softish) into the mouth of a person having a seizure – not to prevent swallowing the tongue (which is bullshit), but to prevent him from biting his tongue, possibly severely?
Normal protocols at 911 including telling the caller what to do (or not do) for a patient prior to the arrival of an ambulance.
For seizure patients our pre-arrival instructions include:
Clear the area around the patient.
Do not restrain the patient.
Do not place anything in the patient’s mouth.
After the seizure has stopped, check to see if the patient is breathing. If not breathing, determine appropriate age group and go to CPR instructions.
Have the patient lie on their side.
If patient is a child, remove clothing to cool patient if hot and feverish. If unconscious after seizure, go to AIRWAY CONTROL (Non-trauma).
Gather patient medications, if any.
Other jurisdictions may have some variations on that list, but the key point is that we can tell people on scene not to do things that might harm the patient. We’ve been through this before and are not so freaked out about it as a caller might be seeing a seizure for the first time.
Seriously - if he’s biting down so hard he’s causing Severe Tongue Damage you risk breaking his teeth against anything harder, including something “soft” like a wallet.
You can put stitches in a lacerated tongue and it will heal (Ask Qadgop the Mercotan about that). Teeth… they don’t heal. They break and have to be replaced.
do you not understand? I’ve bitten my tongue, my mouth, my cheek, my lips, and on one occassion, my arm when I had a seizure in my sleep. That’s much, MUCH preferable to having my jaw broken.
I’m going to say this very bluntly: DON’T FUCKING PUT ANYTHING IN ANYONE’S MOUTH IF THEY’RE HAVING A SEIZURE!!! Anaman, if you insist on calling an ambulance, okay fine, it’s obviously futile to continue arguing with you. But do NOT just stand there. Set the person on the floor, and turn them on their side. You also need to slightly elevate their head and place something soft under it. You don’t want to restrain someone’s who’s seizure, but you do need to help them. Iggy, do you know of any services that will at least help pay these bills? The first time I landed in the hospital (that time I was undiagnosed) I qualified for a temporary program from Medicaid. Do they offer similiar things in your experience?