If Mom just wants a phone to make calls with, why didn’t you tell her to buy a dumb phone?
Oh. Mom’s been writing down detailed instructions for a few decades. And yeah…former teacher. Product of the 1940’s NYC public schools. Her penmanship remains flawless.
To be fully transparent, I love my Apple products. Just wish there were one on one assistants who grokked GrammaSpeek.
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She had one for years. SHE sought a smartphone.
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I do a lot of computer support for seniors, and I can hardly wait until both iPhone and Android have an equivalent of LogMeIn or TeamViewer so I can just get in there and show them. That said I generally find Android easier to explain, because they’re not so fucking cute as Apple is about hiding stuff. And even the most rabid Apple partisans have to admit the Google Assistant blows away Siri. Granted it’s because Google wants to know everything about you and stores it elsewhere, while Apple wants to try to do everything on the phone.
I wonder: have you noticed a gender, or Profession, difference in those classes when teaching Seniors?
From my (very limited) personal sample (and the not-corrobated stories on http://notalwaysright.com), it seems women see this as “Please help me, but if the Magic box doesn’t do what I want it to, well, that’s life” whereas men see it as “I want the Magic box to read my mind, you better make it behave!” - coupled with Profession, since older men are more likely to have been in positions where People followed their orders, but women more likely not.
I think Douglas Adams said something about the Age brackets once, along the lines of :
tech that’s around until you’re a teen - old established reliable, easy for anybody to use
Tech that’s introduced between teen and 30s( or 40s) - new exciting futuristic, can be mastered
Tech that’s introduced after you’re 40 - complicated, the devil’s work, the older tech was much better, you’ll never make head or tails of it.
So if you go back one Generation, ham Radio was a hit in the 1920s, magnet tapes were a hit in the 1940s/50s, Music cassettes (and record Players) were a hit in the 1960s-80s, CDs were a hit from 1990s onward (and later, burning your own audio-CDs from the PC to give your love your own selection)
Added: I’m now falling into the second/ third category myself: not having a Smartphone or tablet, I don’t know anything about Apps from personal experience (unlike PC, which I basically understand).
I am being surprised at how many 70+ year People cope with a Smartphone - taking Pictures, emailing them, sending text Messages - but can’t operate a normal PC at all. Apparently Smartphones are easier to use than PCs at least for some People?
Have any of you noticed that stupid is not age-related? I am a senior. I use a computer and a tablet and a smart phone. I can do lots of stuff on them. I have never called a help line or asked for assistance; I have figured it out. I have a bunch of senior friends who are the same. Grey hair does not mean stupid.
I’ve found the biggest problem is that they don’t actually read what is on the screen and they get confused. I don’t know how many times I’ve had the following conversation;
“Gosh, I don’t know what’s going on with my phone”
“What are you trying to do”
“I’m just trying to do this thing and it keeps telling me stuff and I’m confused”
“What exactly are you trying to do and what is it saying?”
“I’m not sure. All I want to do is check my email.”
“Ok, how are you doing that and what does it say?”
“I don’t know. It just says stuff and doesn’t give me my email”
“Ok, stop, go back to your home screen and click on the email icon”
“I did that, and it said something, and now I’m not sure what to do.”
“What did it say?”
“I don’t know.”
“Ok, if you’re not going to tell me what it says, or follow my instructions, I can’t help you. I can’t see your phone.”
When I did that sort of thing professionally, I’d have people actually tell me that they were just going to set their phone down and walk away, and I should connect to their phone and do it for them. No, I actually can’t do that, and you should be very glad we can’t. Had to hang up when people insisted that’s what they were doing and then walked away.
The other thing I end up telling mostly older people, especially after they mention how children seem to pick this stuff up right away, is that that is because children aren’t afraid to push buttons and read the screen.
Also
“Gosh, how did you know how to fix that?”
“Well ma’am, I’m the guy who gets paid to actually read the error message” 
I found 5 Marionette Homes near you.
Older people?
You have 47 Mary’s in your contacts.
I don’t like iPhones much, but when my parents (mid-70s and not tech savvy) wanted smartphones, I decided that the walled garden was the safest bet for them. Somehow my dad downloads every search engine redirect and “toolbar” ever created (on his PC). I really don’t know how he does it. The App Store and iTunes is very safe.
My default desktop recommendation now for anyone who doesn’t have a very specific program they need is a Chromebook or Chromebox. I set up a friend who has no computer skills up with one and I haven’t had to do a damn thing to it in the two years since.
Same here, and I’m less than a month from turning 69.
Once you figure out that (a) computers are literal-minded; you have to tell them exactly what you want them to do to get them to do it; but (b) in most cases there’s more than one route to get there; so (c) as long as you’re patient and methodical you can get the damned things to work – you’re good to go.
You should hear my nonagenarian mother tell Alexa things like “I don’t think I like that song…” or “That’s awfully loud, don’t you think?”
We keep trying to tell her to speak simple commands, but it really is like that SNL “Alexa for old people” video… “Amazon Echo Silver is specifically designed for the greatest generation”.
“Alyssa, What time is it? What the hell is wrong with this blasted thing? AMANDA! The kids bought me a busted machine again. ODESSA!!!”
IME it’s more related to profession/job; it is related to gender or even degree only inasmuch as some jobs are more likely to be done by some genders or go to specific degrees.
There’s a certain type of user, and I’m talking about the people between 25 and 65 I encounter at work, who wants the Big Blue Database to receive them with a list of the things they’ve got to do that day. They’re likely to have Manager in their job title. It may be a department manager or a factory manager, but it’s always a manager who has subordinates (that is, you won’t get it from someone like the EHS Manager, who doesn’t have minions).
Being able to create shortcuts both in their computer desktop and in the BBD’s main page is not enough: the BBD must send them an email, or better yet, create a popup, every morning as soon as they log in, reminding them of everything they have to do in the BBD that day. Never mind that it happens to be the same every day. They must be reminded. Makes me wonder how or if they manage to remember to wipe their asses after shitting.
That type of user invariably has one or more humans who do that for the rest of their job: the humans in question may be officially called Secretary, or Assistant, but they may also be an Electrician or a Laboratory Technician. Whatever their official job title, these people have undertaken the task of mommying Mr. or Mrs. Important. In some instances, what happens is that Mommy gets detailed instructions and reminds Mr(s). Important of them every day; in others, Mommy is the one who gets the actual access and they just print out the lists for Mr(s). Important to review on paper.
Those Mommys will always be capable and happy to get detailed instructions for whatever they want to do with any object or program; the Managers will always want Mommy to hold their hands while being completely convinced that nobody would ever get anything done if it wasn’t for their amazing leadership.
IDK about Iphones, but Consumer Cellular’s customer service staff is amazing with the seniors, some of the best customer service I’ve ever heard and I hear a LOT of customer service calls
Of course Grey hair doesn’t mean stupid. During the dot-com boom, when I was on the fringes of the industry, many 40+ year old self-taught were at least as competent as the freshly graduated official Computer People in their mid-20s.
That’s why there are so many stories on Notalwaysright of middle-age People (especially the often male Manager type Nava describes) bothering customer Service and being stupid / clueless about how These things work.
It’s just with customer Service, you can brush them off, but if it’s your own parents/ grandparents bugging you, there’s no escape.
And those Grey-hairs who cope with Computers simply by reading the error Messages, or following the script, don’t bother anybody, so they don’t Show up on the Radar.
Or in other words: write down the steps, and then read them.
A broad understanding that a Computer is not a magical mindreader does help, though.
Yes, there is a strong correlation between Managers and male gender.
But I think there’s another aspect: more for the older Generation (now 60+), males got away more in General with being pampered and having things done for them - look at the many anecdotes of Young men going away from home for uni or first Job, and sending their washing home to mum, compared to Young women on their first Job of course doing their own washing.
Similar, women who do become Managers often spend a longer time in lower positions where they have to do stuff themselves - no secretaries/ assistants there, so when they get higher positions, they are already used to.
It’s interesting comparing the 1960s when (male) Managers had (female) secretaries taking dictation (and in big companies, a whole typing pool transcribing These dictations on typewriters).
When PCs came along, they typing pools got eliminated, but secretaries /assistants often kept (for Status?), and the expectation that a Manager couldn’t be bothered to write his own letters carried over for some time.
I think it’s mostly the IT industry, during the dot com boom, who did away with secretaries, because they couldn’t afford extra personnel.
Although in one IT-newspaper Company, the (male) department Manager had a half-time secretary; when he was replaced with a female, the secretary was not replaced, so she just typed her stuff herself.
Very good description. Problem is if you aren’t interacting with their Manager, but directly with them (because relative) or if it goes beyond daily ordinary Tasks:
“I want [Word/ Excel/ Program X] to do [very specific Task that I’ve never used/ hardly use], make the program do it!” I’m not the bloody programmer of Word / Excel! I can try and look it up, but high Chance is that the function is not included in the program.
Well, that’s not what a database is for - but Outlook has a series function with a pop-up reminder, and you could either put the list or (if it changes) the link to the database in the textfield.
I wonder though how much it has to do with power? If a Manager makes a Person / subordinate do something - like bring him the printout, or click on the button of the PC - he sees his power. If he clicks the button himself, he is no longer a Manager, but like everybody else. (Has anybody done a psychological Experiment on this?;))