Help! I am in need of the collective wisdom of my fellow Dopers.
I am currently driving a 1997 Subaru Outback Sport. It only has 81,000 miles on it, and has been a very trouble-free car. I love it! On the other hand, it IS 15 years old, and even though it’s low mileage I know sooner or later things are going to start going wrong with it due to sheer aging of parts. I had to junk a car unexpectedly once (the car looked fine, but underneath the brake lines rusted out, and it failed state inspection), and don’t want to repeat that experience. Right now I could either sell or donate this car to charity with a clear conscience (as it’s perfectly drivable now) and buy a new Outback Sport with the tax refund I received earlier this year. A new car would have better safety features, some nice convenience features my current car lacks (like cruise control), and a three-year warranty. On the other hand, a new car would be of unknown reliability (even Subaru must make the rare lemon), and money is money - I’d hate to spend thousands of dollars unnecessarily.
So, what would you do if you were in my position? Keep my current old but low mileage car, or replace it with a newer model?
My situation is similar–I drive an extremely reliable '98 Honda Civic (that was actually purchased in '97) with 65K miles on it. I recently decided to get it painted (the clear coat was wearing off) rather than replacing it. I plan to keep it for another few years, at least. OK, so it’s 14 years old–so what? It runs great, it’s dependable, it gets great gas mileage, and it’s paid for–why not keep it. YMMV.
My threshold to dump a car or motorcycle is when the cost of needed repairs at a single moment in time (“needed” such as for inspection or safety) exceed the value. If the fair market value (guessed at via sale ads) is $2000 and the brakes, tires and exhaust all need replaced at once then reliable or not I’m probably moving on to a different car.
I’d keep it until it dies. You love it…why change? '97 is not that old, my last car was a 94 and I had basically no problems with it for the 4 years I owned it (sold it because we moved out of the country).
Absolutely keep it! Whatever you would expect to pay a month for a new car, put that in a saving account each month. You’ll probably have many thousands of dollars before your current car craps out.
My rules for when to dump an older car is when it starts causing me more trouble than it’s worth (probably the same rule-of-thumb as kopek). I take mine in for regular tune-ups and checks; when the report comes back that X is fried, and needs a $1500 fix, it’s time to go car shopping. It’ll die soon enough anyway; why borrow trouble?
I had a '98 Jeep Cherokee with 180,000 miles on it. I would have kept it indefinitely as I loved it and there was nothing mechanically wrong with it. But, it was a two door and getting car seats in and out was pretty much impossible. Bye bye Jeep. Hello Minivan.
I think a big part of the equation is how well maintained a car is and how much of your own work you do. Monday I replaced the front pads, caliper bolts, and bushings on my 02 Cavalier. Parts from NAPA, were $65. The Calipers were redone 3 years ago and should have been in good shape. I will trust the brake hoses until perhaps the next time. I don’t expect to have to do anything more to the front brakes for a few years. Likely, I should pull the drums and eyeball the back. They were completely redone 3 years ago to. If nothing else, free up the self adjusters. I am sure it would have cost much more elswhere and who knows what unneeded work I would have been pressured to do.
What else is rusting? If you are seeing serious body rust on a unibody, think new.
I agree. Until last year, I was driving a 1994 Honda Accord with roughly 130,000 miles. But around Labor Day, it failed to start a few times so I took it to the mechanic. They looked at it, and then started listing the things that needed to be fixed (radiator, $800, ignition system, $500, etc.) Once the numbers started to exceed $2000, I told them to leave it alone as I was going to use the holiday weekend to shop for a new car. I ended up getting $400 for the car, and I suspect that it was disassembled for parts (rather than being sold as a drivable car).
97 is old? I’m currently driving an 87 (228k) and will be soon replacing it with a 98.
My old car is starting to have real problems that would cost noticeable money to fix and auto parts stores no longer carry standard replacement parts for it anymore. (E.g., brake parts.) So, it’s time to go.
It’s replacement I know has been well maintained (as I’ve done a lot it) so I’m not really worried and keeping it around for a while.
Even if you’re spending $500-$1000 a year on repairs, compare that to the cost of a new car. Chickenfeed. People tend not to be logical on repair costs vs. new car costs.
If it runs and doesn’t have any obvious serious problems, keep it.
Which is your higher priority? Not being faced with necessary replacement on short notice (which could easily happen, whether it be six weeks from now or six years from now), or not spending a bunch of money if you don’t have to? You can either spend the money now and avoid the former, or keep the car until it’s shot and avoid the latter.
ETA: I would say that reliability concerns over a new Subaru are negligible.
This philosophy doesn’t work for everybody. I will take a higher total of amortized expected costs compared to a lower total of unexpected costs any day of the week. I could make room in my budget to afford $10 a week for a year, but there’s no way my budget could handle a $500 surprise out of nowhere.
Plus, cars that require repairs like that are also older and less of a status symbol. Most people aren’t just paying for function when they buy a vehicle. Otherwise everyone would drive their current car until it fell apart. Most people don’t do this.
The car has been well maintained; I bought it new in December of 1996, and have been the sole driver. And I’ve been meticulous about getting it serviced at regular intervals, with oil changes every 2-3,000 miles.
However, I don’t do any of my own work, which is what worries me. I’m not going to spot a part that’s on the verge of failing; I’m relying on the mechanics at my car dealership for that. And I need a very reliable car for work. It’s one thing if the car fails in a “graceful” way that leaves it drivable for a while, giving me some time to shop for a replacement. But a failure that renders the car more or less unusable quickly would represent a real problem for me. My nights and weekends aren’t always free, and Murphy’s Law will probably arrange for a catastrophic breakdown to happen right before an on-call weekend when I won’t be free to car-shop. Of course, I could afford to drive a rental for a week or two, if it came down to that, so it wouldn’t be a total disaster, just a major inconvenience.
This car looks nearly new. There’s a small (less than dime-sized) spot of rust at the edge of the right rear wheel well, but that’s it. And that’s been stable in size for years. So I have no reason to think anything particularly hideous is going on with the undercarriage.
Sounds like the general Doper consensus is that I should sit tight and keep driving Old Faithful for a while longer. Thanks! That’s very helpful.
Definitely the priority is avoiding a necessary replacement on very short notice. I’d like to drive my current car until it’s ALMOST shot. The hard trick is figuring out when it’s reached that stage. The problem with driving my car until the wheels fall off is that, well, the wheels have fallen off, and how am I to get around once that has happened?
And given the reliability of my current Subaru, I agree with you about the new ones. The chances that I’d get a lemon are very, very low.
Yep. I replaced my 2000 Kia Sephia last year when in the year previous I’d spent over $2000 in repairs and it would need $1000 more to pass inspection in six weeks from then. I wish I’d just replaced it a year sooner and I’d be that much closer to paying off my replacement.
Our cars tend to wear out due to miles driven, rather than age, but the general formula we use is:
Is the average monthly amount (say over the last 6 or 12 months) I’m spending on repairs greater than $250? If no, keep driving until something changes. If yes, time to start looking to see what’s on the market for a replacement car.
My rule of thumb when we still had our van ('97 Aerostar with 230K+ miles) was if repairs were less than 2 or 3 car payments, and I felt confident the vehicle would be good for at least twice that long, I got it fixed. It had gotten to the point where we decided that the transmission, which was the only part that had never had any issues, could be a deciding factor.
As it was, I sold it to a coworker for $600 rather than wait for it to die. Plus our credit union had great loan rates and we got a super deal on an almost-new pickup. We only had the van for hauling and towing at that point. Anyway, getting a newer vehicle while we were still working was our deciding point.
If you are simply trying to avoid unexpected death, then you are still putting convenience (or status) over money. If that’s your priority, that’s your priority. But, from a purely financial standpoint, it always makes sense to keep driving a vehicle until it dies, even sometimes when cost of repairs exceed value. My last car was a '97 that I bought used, and drove until last year. I’d put several thousand dollars into repairs the last couple of years. It was only worth about $400 when I traded it (for another used car). I could have continued to drive it and repair when needed and that would have been cheaper than the car payment (and increased insurance payments). And, I haven’t avoided repairs because the “new” car needed some work in the fall. I just finally *wanted *something else badly enough that I said goodbye to the old that I’d driven for 10 years, and hello to the new.
As someone else said, take what you would have spent on car payments every month and sock it into the bank. When those unexpected repairs come around, you’ll have a slush fund. When you finally do want to get something else, you’ll have a nice down payment.
This. For as long as it’s running you can tell yourself the old car is making you about $500/month (penny saved = penny earned).
But also: Your car in good shape with low miles is worth quite a bit. This fact will change sharply as age starts to take a more objective toll. A car that appears to be in great shape might be worth $4,500. As soon as the fuel pump goes, or the transmission decides to shun 3rd gear, you can quickly find yourself with a very large paperweight worth 10% of what it was 2 days ago. So…are you a gambler? How much longer do you think your car can make you $500/month? Longer than 9 months?
