When Waitresses Attack

The BBQ Pit
141

Well, since you asked. …

First of all, if you think she’s lying? Okay, I guess you’re gonna think what you think is right.

But, At least stick to that, don’t then say, after several people complain “lighten up” that, “well okay then, I don’t think she’s lying, but if she “allegedly” blah blah blah” and then switch out at the end and say “I think she’s lying and I can’t help how I feel”.

Just understand that, if you have this kind of attitude, others are going to be shocked at your hardassedness, and THEY’RE going to say something too. And if they feel you’re being too harsh, they’re going to call you on it and that they, in turn, “can’t help how they feel” either.

I wasn’t the only one surprised at your “take no prisoners” approach to what, Really, boiled down to a silly, but pretty darn mild mistake on the part of both the lunch party/boss AND the waitress.

Second, I wouldn’t “suggest you post” anything. You’re gonna do what you feel is “right” I guess.

If it were me though, I might tend to look into why I have such a mistrustful, bitter view of people.

Based on your work history, I’d say you were about my age, unless it’s your second career. About Mid40s??

If so, then as a person in your same age group, I have to say I’m surprised and saddened. Some of your attitudes, as revealed in your posts strike me as coming from a much older and crotchetier (I know, no such word :)) type person. Someone from whom I sense bitterness and mistrust of the world in general.

Now, I’m guessing I’m your same age, and I’ve been through some hellacious crap in my life. So, it really makes me feel bad for you, that something’s apparently hardened you this way.

You say, in another thread, that your career consists mainly of working with convicts and other folks down on their luck, and that (paraphrased) you’ve a great deal of experience with the way these people “believe/hear what they want to hear, do what they want” etc.

Maybe it’s because you’ve spent the last 25 years in that setting, dealing with untrustworthy people, or maybe it’s the “goverment job” syndrome. I don’t know.

I do know I feel bad for you. And I feel bad that you may have mistaken my tenacity on getting to the points, as attacking you. I have a great deal of natural enthusiasm and passion, which I need to learn to keep OUT of my typing. It certainly wasn’t meant as a personal attack, just a “getting to the bottom of this” type foray.

142

What is “wrong with that” is that regardless of whether you’re in the “people have a moral obligation to top” school, or in the “tipping is entirely voluntary” school of thought.

As a server, I can ASSURE you, her actions were so highly unprofessional (not to metion downright odd), as to be an offense that would get you terminated in most restaurants.

Now, regardless of whether you PERSONALLY believe that it’s mandatory, morally speaking. The norm, in restaurants is as a poster said some time back. “them’s the breaks,” and waitresses are all WELL aware of “rules of engagement” so to speak.

THIS is why her behaviour was over the top.

By the way, as has been pointed out by the OP, as well as numerous other posters. The “el cheapo” family INTENDED to tip. And DID make good on the tip, despite her behaviour.

So, in the case of this OP, it’s not as if they were of the school of thought that said, “we don’t have to tip if we don’t want to”.

143

Back when I was a server, and this is in Alaska so the regs could be different for us, we had a choice. We could allow the employer to tax 8% of our sales rcpts, or we could track our own tips and have the employer withhold accordingly.

I took the “track my own tips” route, and had an elaborate Excel spreadsheet designed to track my tips, ESPECIALLY where I got stiffed. Worked out just fine.

But, as I said in a previous post, maybe things have changed, it’s been nearly 15 years since I had to wait tables, so I’m probably way behind the times.

144

Not a thing. It was the way she did it: implying krisolov and party were skipping out on the bill.

145

Aye, mhendo, something looked wrong about it. (5:30am One-more-post-before-bed mistake if I’ve ever seen one…) :smack:

At least I didn’t go with “cue.”

146

I don’t think we’re far apart on this. As I’ve said before, I always start high, and seldom drop the tip below 20%; I find it hard to imagine a situation in which I’d withhold a tip completely, having once depended on tips to pay the rent myself.

What I’m objecting to, I think, is not the premise that tipping is the right thing to do, or even that a refusal to tip makes you a contemptible and cheap bastard. I agree with that wholeheartedly.

The question is what should a waiter or waitress do when confronted with such a cheap bastard.

I am firmly in the camp that says chasing down the party and demanding a tip is out of bounds. I agree that asking, politely, if there was a problem with the service is fine; it permits the waiter to gently nudge the forgetful into remembering. But in the end, the customer has the right to be a cheap bastard; the waiter has no right to demand a tip.

  • Rick
147

I think the long view on this is that the waitress is in the wrong.

Whether or not the patrons neglected to tip out of forgetfulness, displeasure with service, or because of a non-belief in tipping, they paid their bill. Lack of tipping is not a crime.

By running out to them and causing a scene, she did two things she did two things that are bad: (1) It was mentioned that the restaurant was busy… how much worse service is she giving the rest of her customers by leaving the premises to chase down some money and (2) by making her customers feel awkward and uncomfortable, she is encouraging them to not come back. Which she won’t mind, because she believes they’re not tippers (which may or may not be true) but the management would likely be steamed at anything that drives business away.

148

I swore I was going to stay away from this thread for the sake of my blood pressure.

Bricker, I don’t disagree with your last paragraph because of this phrase:

But please consider this scenario:
A man comes into Vibrotronica’s Bar and Grill. He recieves adequate service, but he believes that, since it isn’t printed on the bill, he is under no obligation to pay the tip. The next week, he returns. Once again he recieves adequate service, and once again he refuses to tip. The next week, he retuns again. This time, after he is seated, one of the servers points him out to the manager, who approaches the table and says “Since you refuse to tip my employees, you are no longer welcome at this restaurant.” and throws the man out. Now sure, the manager has the legal right to do this, since privately-owned restaurants can refuse service to anyone for any reason, except when they expose themselves to civil liability by discriminating on the basis of race, etc. But in your worldview, is the manager in the right here?

149

Whats your point? Of course he can do so. In my experience in the 20 or so restaurants I have worked in it would never happen. I did once see a restaurant owner jump over the window of the kitchen and chase a customer down the street after he lifted a tip off a table that wasn’t the one he was sitting at. Customer got to go to jail. Same owner fired a waitress for casing a customer down for not tipping.

Also if you are not making enough in tips to cover minimum wage you are an appaulingly bad waitress or your restaurant has no people. Either way you need a different job.

150

Vibrotroninca: excellent question.

Yes, I believe the manager is both within his rights, and right, to do this, with the proviso that his approach and discussion at the table is private, rather than spoken in stentorian tones.

I hope the differences between your hypo and the actual case are obvious, however.

151

Huh…lol.

The real scenario would end up with him pretty much getting ignored and put last on the priority list for all of the servers. Hopefully he’d get the hint and not eat there again.

And, warning to poor tippers. Waitresses have Looooong memories when it comes to poor tippers, and those that don’t tip at all, and they SHARE information.

Even if they end up at a new restaurant and recognize one from a place they used to work.

152

Yes, Canvas, you’re right, but believe it or not, I have seen the scenario I described actually happen. There was much rejoicing, except by the customer, who threw a hissy fit. IIRC, he had come in more than just twice before, however.

Bricker: 1) Why is it important that the manager be descreet when throwing the customer out? 2) The difference in my scenario and the OP scenario is that a) my scenario occurred inside the restaurant, b) there was a precedent for the lack of tip, c) it was a manger instead of a server that did the dirty work. Am I missing anything? 3) Let’s say Canvas’s “real scenario” plays out and the man is ignored by the wait staff. He complains to the manager. What is the proper response by the manger?

Even though these questions are directed at Bricker, anyone is welcome to respond.

153

mhendo: To this particular Australian, your position seems to me as being one which, ironically, pulls the rug out from underneath the concept which “tipping” is supposed to stand on.

I know, I know… everything you stated earlier is valid - I can’t disagree with your logic at all. Given the way your Taxation system works, and the combination of slave hour rates for poor old service staff etc, yes… it’s just plain inarguable that tipping has now become a recognised, common place portion of a service person’s income stream.

And yes, given these circumstances, any fellow American who consciously chooses to withhold a tip is probably quite justifiably open to being criticised as an el cheapo bastard - wouldn’t disagree with you there for a nanosecond.

Here’s the funny thing though - in many respects - down here in Australia we’ve actually got it right in my opinion, as compared to how the last century has evolved in the USA. You see, the labour movement down here got their shit together many years ago in the “waiting” industry and the average wage for waiters down here (based on some enquiries these last few days) hovers between $12 and $15 per hour - and any tips you make on top of that are icing on the cake which aren’t taxable.

The point I’m trying to get across here is a very subtle one… but it’s one worth making I believe - namely - in the USA, a typical diner is “expected to always give a 15% tip… unless really shitty service is tendered”. In Australia, waiters don’t really expect a tip unless they’ve truly earnt it, and at least half of the time, if a tip is tendered, it’s a purely voluntary thing on the part of diner.

Now, I reckon that’s something worth noting - because what’s happened now in the USA is this - due to the nature of the shitty hourly wages and the accepted tax caveats - tipping is now considered as merely another wage component. Ergo, for a diner to TRULY give a tip to waiter, he or she must volunteer way more than the accepted 15% tip which is normally offered. Perhaps 25%, perhaps 30%. Under these circumstances, the diner is actually asked to offer two tips - firstly the obligated one, and then, secondly, a voluntary one.

I mean no disrespect when I say this, but at some point the logic of this starts to look really dumb. Tipping, in it’s purest form is meant to be a display of good will and generosity.

As it stands, tipping in the United States has been hijacked to now represent a mere wage component which would, in any other industry, be paid by said employee’s boss.

And in doing so, tipping in the United States has lost it’s charm - it’s no longer voluntary - it’s expected. And most of us non Americans would argue that you’ve lost your way a bit on that one.

154

I really don’t get this. Somebody stiffs a waitress and they “get away free” if they cross the finish line - which is at the entrance to the restaurant"

What the fuck is that all about. Yeah, go on into the theatre and discuss the matter. I mean this waitress got stiffed and she’s suppose to just “bend over”

I tell you what, I bet that boss doesn’t stiff another waitress for a while. (cheap fuck)

155

Dsicretion is important because courtesy is a duty owed by the manager, and because there is a practical component - the situation may be the result of error or good-faith misunderstanding, and the manager’s discreet approach may resolve it. Even if this is not so, the failure of a customer to tip may merit his being banned from the establishment; it does not merit a public dressing-down.

In Canvas’ scenario, the manager should say something, quietly, along the lines of, “I’m sorry you’re having this problem, but I believe the reason is that you never tip the waitstaff, and for this reason you’re at the bottom of their priority list. Other patrons tip, and, naturally, the waitstaff is more inclined to make sure they are served first.”

  • Rick