Wandered over to the boards on a boring Saturday night, was impressed with the quality of the discussion. Seems like a good place to ask a question that I’ve wanted thoughtful replies to for years:
Some people really, really, really don’t like homosexuals. Those people usually
argue that their ill will is justified for one or both of these reasons: that homosexuality is “unnatural”, or that the Bible says it’s wrong. But I see few proponents of the “unnatural” argument launching protests against genetically modified corn, and those who hold up the Bible often treat homosexuality as the sin
of sins - there is no www.godhatesmotherandfatherdishonorers.com. My point is not to dismiss these arguments (though, for the record, I don’t buy either of them) but to say there must be something else, something deeper, to explain why some people see gays as such a threat to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
So the question is: Why do some people really have such a problem with homosexuality? The kind of answer I’m really looking for is from the domain of evolutionary psychology; that is, an explanation of why homophobia is adaptive or how it might have arisen as an exaptation. But if any of the Teeming Masses have thoughtful ideas from another explanatory stance, I game for those as well.
Almost all homophobia is a result of cultural programming, be it the Bible or just some homophobic parents (relatives, friends, teachers …) twisting little junior’s mind. Homosexual behavior is found throughout the entire animal world and is about as shocking as lukewarm tea.
Sadly, many people have the IQ of lukewarm tea and manage to be shocked anyway.
One could posit that if one were naturally bisexual, one would have a greater chance of reproductive success if one is repulsed by members of the same sex, and thus can only successfully screw MOS. I have no data, but it’s a personal theory of mine.
Calling it “cultural programming” only moves the question back a generation (or two or 47). Why and how do parents, friends, etc. so often propogate such a passionate distaste for homosexuality?
Seems like it’s typical human behavior to dislike, or even hate, people who are different. Especially if they’re relatively small minorities.
For some reason, quarks, often people don’t seem to question the prejudices of their families, friends, ‘special books,’ etc. I know how vague those answers are, but I’m not sure how much more specific it’s gonna get. I doubt you can trace all homophobia to one incident or anything.
It has came to my attention that most homophobes are just not secure with their own sexuality. Basically men who have been called gay or might secretly be attracted to men are the ones who are most likely to be homophobes. Also, religious fanatics who take everything literally already have a basis for their homophobia.
That disapproval seems highly irrational to me, and I think it may be rooted in fear. Just because somebody said it was bad thousands of years ago doesn’t make it rational.
Still, it’s supposition to state that it’s rooted in fear. That may be the case, or maybe not. One might surmise that this disapproval is rooted in fear, but that would be a difficult claim to justify.
I don’t know if it’s difficult to justify; it’d be hard to prove either way. There are a lot of interesting questions like that (i.e. why was homosexuality abhorrent to the writer/writers of Leviticus, but not the ancient Greeks?), but I don’t mean to hijack the thread.
First, to clear up our terminology: In my my judgement, the term homophobia has evolved beyond its etymological roots and does not simply mean fear of homosexuality. I use it to refer to any prejudice against homosexuals and homosexuality, whether it manifests as fear, violent hatred, “love the sinner, hate the sin”, whatever.
Next, to restate and hopefully clarify the question: People give lots of reasons why they don’t like homosexuality: the Bible, natural law, fear of their own sexuality. It has always seemed to me that the vehemence of host homophobes negative feelings about homosexuality far outstrips the explanatory power of any of these conventional explanations.
So what I’d like is an explanation with more explanatory power, or an argument why one of the old explanations really is adequate to explain the passion of many people’s homophobia.
But hey, I’m not so naive as to think this thread is not going to prompt a number of tangents and meta debates. I just want to make sure I’ve been as clear as possible about the question I’m posing.
This being Great Debates and all, are we going to be seeing some cites here? For stuff
like this:
and this:
Just wondering. I have some personal opinions of my own, for which I am either unable to find cites, or (more likely) too lazy to look for them, or in one case can’t provide cites because it would involve breaking the rules of this board concerning pornography. But I would feel uncomfortable offering them here, unless the thread were moved to IMHO.
Well, if we want an evolutinary psychology type explanation, I’d start with the idea that homophobia is merely the latest special case of xenophobia (fear/ hatred of ``others’’). And we can suggest, hopefully without being called on for references, that having an enemy helps strengthen the social bonds within a group. We can then postulate that strong social bonds within a group were selected for back when we were hunting out on the savanna, and hunting as a group was more successful than doing so solo.
Now, whether that meets the standards of rigour involved in evolutionary psychology, I don’t know.
There’s also “internalized homophobia”, which is ‘residual’ homophobia existing in people who are admittedly non-heterosexual. It usually takes the form of guilt, shame, or the desire to change even when attempts to change have proven to be unsuccessful (though it’s sometimes broadened to include a failure to embrace ‘queer culture’).
There are those for whom homophobia manifests as actual fear in addition to simple disapproval or even hate. I would imagine this is most common in heterosexual males who may be afraid that they are attracted to men, or that men may ‘hit on them’. This essentially means that they are either afraid they might be gay, or that others may think they’re gay. (As has already been mentioned, several studies have concluded that, at least among self-described heterosexual males, intense homophobia has been correlated with higher degrees of arousal upon viewing homoerotic images.)
Women are vehemently homophobic far less often than men, which helps to explain the aforementioned high-school locker room theory of homophobia. And those who are vehemently homophobic do not often have deep-set religious beliefs or biological reasons for their hatred; they “just hate faggots”. (Except for Fred Phelps, but his homophobia is far too rampant to be explained by mere Christianity – I’m certain that there’s some other factor at work there.)
So, in the most extreme cases, homophobia seems to manifest as hatred of gay men (but not lesbians) by heterosexual men. I don’t really think it’s based on religion or philosophy; I think it’s just that those men are afraid that they might be thought of as being gay. Since gayness is connected with diverse negative stereotypes, it is viewed as inferior and sub-masculine, and overt, explicit homophobia is viewed as necessary to prove one’s heterosexuality and hence masculinity.
Hatred of joy. Dishonourers of their parents are unlikely to be thought to be having too much fun. But gay people are clearly having a better time in their lives that most of us - no kids, more disposable income.
There is a class of people who look upon this not with wistfulness but envy. If they can’t have more fun then the people they’re looking at must be made to have less fun. So they make up all sorts of restrictive rules about who can have sex with who, what you can eat and when, how you can spend your free time.
I don’t think there is an explanation for this from evolutionary theory.
Yes, but the burden of proof rests on those who claim it IS a phobia. There is no need to prove it “either way,” as its proof is the responsibility of those who use the term.
QUOTE]*Originally posted by Marley23 *
**First, to clear up our terminology: In my my judgement, the term homophobia has evolved beyond its etymological roots and does not simply mean fear of homosexuality. **
[/QUOTE]
I don’t think there WAS any evolution involved. As far as I can tell, from the very start, the term “homophobia” was used to encompass disapproval and discomfort, in addition to genuine fear (of which I have yet to see any actual usage). This seems to me like a case wherein the term “phobia” was simply co-opted, rather than a case of etymological evolution.
There may be another aspect to what many call homophobia. Sometimes the mere expression of the opinion that homosexuality may not be proper behavior in the site of God is branded homophobia by those who strongly oppose this viewpoint. Many activists, while they realize this is merely a difference of opinion between two individuals, also know branding the other person a ‘homophobe’ gives them a propaganda advantage in a debate.
