Did anyone actually watch the clip I linked to? What I did was quote verbatim some of the lines from the clip, the idea being to lead the reader into watching the clip, wherein St. Ronnie explicates many of the beliefs and concerns of those of us on the right - especially the Tea Party.
Time and time again here I see posts or threads wanting to know what’s behind the Tea Party, why it came into being and what is driving it. Well, there’s a large part of your answer.
I knew of course that the clips were incomplete. I came upon most of them myself while Googling to make sure the clip’s attributions were correct. And while I stand by the position that the quotes don’t materially change what is objectionable about them, it would have defeated the purpose to post quotes that didn’t match the ones in the clip. Neither Obama nor any other government official has any business telling American citizens that the time can come when they’ve made enough money; Nancy Pelosi unquestionably stated that congress must pass the health bill so people would know what’s in it; Hare unquestionably and defiantly stated his lack of concern for the Constitution in drafting legislation because he considered his actions and his beliefs morally superior to it, etc., etc., etc. There is nothing in any of the expanded clips that gives the lie to the message of an arrogant, out of control Congress doing as it pleases (remember when Pelosi exhorted her lackeys in Congress to vote for the bill even if they get kicked out of office for it?) with little concern for the Constitution, the electorate or its proper role in governing the nation. That was the message behind the quotes and the link posted in the OP and it remains so now.
Really? I’ve seen plenty of posts criticizing the Tea Party, and plenty defending it, but I don’t recall any questions about what inspired it. It seemed to me that most posters here have already made up their minds. And since the OP included the phrase “not that I expect any of this will gain any kind of traction around here,…” it seemed you had the same idea. (But later you said “I expected a somewhat livelier thread…”, so who knows.)
My personal opinion is that the Tea Party is made up of people who can’t admit when they’ve been wrong. Ever met anyone like that? The other day I was riding my bike on a bike path. (Pedestrians allowed too, of course, but it is signed as a bike route.) I came up behind a guy pushing a shopping cart, right down the middle of the path. There was maybe enough room to get by on either side, but people are liable to do anything when you come up behind them unexpectedly. That’s why I’ve got a bell. I rang it. No response. I came up a little closer behind him and matched his pace. Then he noticed and moved to one side. As I rode past, he said I should say something when I want to get by. I told him I rang the bell. He said a voice was easier to hear over traffic.
Seriously? To start with, there’s no reason to be in the middle of the path in the first place. I wasn’t going to mention it, but then his first instinct wasn’t to own up to what he’d been doing, he had to attack me. The fact was, I had tried to alert him. Was that good enough? No, he thinks a voice is easier to hear than a bell that rings out like, well, a bell.
So that’s who’s in the Tea Party. Are they right now? Only time will tell. I just think that their current beliefs are the only way they can cope without having to admit the past. Thirty years of Republicans have been spending this country into the poorhouse. But some people who voted for them just can’t admit that, probably even to themselves. The only alternative is to say “we’re not them anymore”, but then they go out and make the exact same mistakes all over again. Tax cuts and a balanced budget? They have no choice but to continue to believe it.
Well, heck, we already knew from whence the Tea Party! Its a grass roots, popular movement of a center-right nation rising up in disgust and revulsion at the deterioration of society under liberal tyranny. Duh.
Starvin loves to defend the rights of the wealthy to gather as much money and power as they can. He complains about wealth redistribution ignoring the fact that is exactly what Bush did. They the Repubs cry about the deficits, pretending Cheney did not say"Reagan proved, deficits don’t matter". Then fired Treasury Secretary Paul On’Neill when he warned of a looming fiscal crisis, because of the coming deficits.
Tea Baggers are more closely aligned with Democratic financial policy than the Repubs. They are just too stupid to figure it out.
The Tea Party came about from 3 perceptions, all of which have some validity (although both side will argue how much validity.
The government wastes money
Democrats argue against trickle-down economics yet support it by having the government tax the rich so that it can trickle-down (read: redistributed) to the poor but bypassing the middle class (what is left of it). Now, give money to bailout large companies and banks that refuse to lend (a recreation of what happened in 1929 when Hoover gave the banks money. Looks like the Dems never learn from history) and it is clear that we need a government that has a tighter rein on spending.
The government is out of touch with Americans. The health-care bill was passed despite most Americans not wanting that bill. Proof that the TPartiers were right - read the thread on McDonalds workers losing health care and just wait when healthy Americans take the tax penalty then get Stage-3 cancer that the taxpayer will need to pay for. Oh and why are we being taxed for years before it even goes into effect? Oh that’s right, to offset the cost so that it appears that the government will save money (see #1).
The Republicans are getting as bad as the Democrats. While they’ll never be AS BAD as the Dems, the lay down on the health care bill and the Rep-led pork spending means that the TPartiers need to do this outside of the party system. The Reps are politicians first and Republicans second.
I agree with these points, especially with the hypocracy that Dems don’t view tax-the-rich, feed-the-poor social welfare as trickle down economics. I also think that Keynsian economics is a disproven theory and that Obama has a tax-and-spend mentality and hired advisors that are no more than yes-men to that theory. But I am NOT a TBagger.
The problem is that TPartiers are also ultra social-conservatives and rather than trying to get some rationality into the system, it has been hijacked by PalinBeck to pull the Republicans to the right rather than towards the center where it should be. So now the TPartiers are just the Religious Right with a new name.
Bollocks. The Democrats passed health care reform and at least try to pay for it. The Republicans passed the prescription drug benefit and put it on credit.
Holy fuck, you really might actually be that stupid and partisan.
Did you know that Minority Leader John Boehner recently said, “we’re going to ship millions of jobs overseas.”
What sort of message does that send?
Here’s an even better quote from Obama, “Taxes are scheduled to go up substantially next year.”
So as far as clips go, you need to watch this one
because THAT is where the tea party came from. Flat out fucking lies. Puppet masters pulling the strings of people to stupid and too lazy to think for themselves. And I’m sure that after watching that, you’ll say something just as stupid like, “well, he still means he’s going to raise taxes.”
This clip starting at 5:30 shows the whole thing. Followed by Boehner telling us he plans to ship millions of jobs overseas.
You have so perfectly shown us where the Tea Party came from–idiots. Really fucking stupid people that believe shit like death panels, and this made up story about Kerry and Bush.
The Tea Party has actually made it harder for intelligent conservatives to be heard, it is a party of ignorance, and now just one big joke. Which is too bad. There are so many fiscal conservatives in American desperate for a voice. Real, honest, intelligent people that want the budget balanced, tax policy to be properly thought through, and for government to be smaller so that the tax burden can be lower. Instead, we have Sarah Palin telling people to “buck up or stay in the truck.”
I’m quoting this for truth in case anyone glossed over the bullshit revisionist history lesson and missed it.
As an outsider looking in, the Tea Party is a massive disappointment. They had an opportunity to create a party separate from the usual bullshit [of abortions and guns], and actually focus on *fiscal *conservative instead of *social *conservative. They failed. In a few months Tea Party candidates (cough Christine O’Donnell, cough) will lose any and all message about fiscal responsibility, and settle right back into the old comfortable chair of abortion and guns.
If the Tea Party had any balls, the first thing they would have demanded was higher taxes to balance the budget–true fiscal responsibility. The second thing they would have demanded was slashing the military in half. The third thing they would have demanded was a self paid for style of Social Security instead of a pension style. And lastly, they would have demanded massive overalls to the health care system so that government COULD get out of medicare.
Double Bullocks!!
The Democrats are not paying for health-care, the American tax-payers are unless Pelosi, Ried and Obama are opening up their personal checkbooks.
So what’s more damaging. This quote? Or the fact that House Minority lead John Boehner actively help spread lies, the same way you are?
As was noted above, this quote is from Thomas Edison, but the speech Hastings made was edited and then posted on John Boehner’s youtube channel.
You can see the partial and the full clip here. And as the article says, there is lots of dumb shit that Hastings said, why edit the tape to present lies? Is it that hard to refute Hastings with truthful rebuttal?
So I present to you what the Tea Party is all about–lies. But it’s okay, because Starving Artist tells us we can trust the conservatives to do what’s right–and that I didn’t have to quote out of context.
Those two statements pretty much sum up the Tea Party: suddenly realizing that there is a deficit, and that they pay taxes. But having an entirely incorrect understanding of the two concepts.
This caught my eye. Would you educate me on Hoover giving money to the banks, please?
As far as TARP goes, all indications are that it was 1) a spectacular success, and 2) not anywhere near as costly as the doomsayers represented.
The U.S. (and, by extension, the world) had a banking industry with the sword of Damocles hanging over its head. It was apparent to everyone that the money markets were about to collapse. (“Everyone”, because I’ve never heard an argument that they weren’t, only that we should have let them collapse.) TARP prevented the Great Depression of our lifetimes. That we still wound up with a Great Recession is not good, but it’s far better than the alternative.
The CBO estimates that rescuing the U.S. (and, by extension, the world) from a Great Depression II will wind up costing the taxpayers about $66 billion. The White House about $50 billion. Cheap at twice the price, I would say.
I’ll also note that I, for one, remember which administration was in power when TARP was enacted, and that it is one of the very few items for which I applaud that administration.
Economists cannot prove their theories the way physicists and chemists can with controlled, repeatable experiments. You can’t go back in time, choose a different policy, and measure the different results.
Nevertheless, the theories of John Maynard Keynes are still respected among professional economists. Paul Krugman, who won the Nobel Prize for Economics in 2008, is a committed Keynesian.
Oh, please! Some of 'em lie just like some of any other group lies. (How did you feel about the Clintons, btw?) Some are bigots just like some of any other group are bigots. Some can’t spell (‘morans’) just like some of any group can’t spell. There have been many occasions around here where I’ve seen posts and OP’s with improperly spelled words and I don’t remember you or any of the other posters to this thread concluding therefore than they are idiots.
One thing we do know about the Tea Party is that as a group they are better educated and wealthier than the general population. This tells me they are likely smarter than the general population too.
Here is a NYT poll from last spring that sums up the Tea Party pretty well. Sprinkled about are nonsense comments which I’m sure you’ll want to focus on, but elsewhere you’ll find that the Tea Party in general is fed up with the direction the country is headed, which includes spending, government redistribution of wealth, and the government overreaching its proper role and infringing upon our Constitutionally mandated freedoms. Listen to Reagan in the clip I posted and you’ll find out a great deal about what Tea Party members and other conservatives are concerned and angry about where it comes to the direction this country has been headed.
I have come disagree with the idea that Republicans and conservatives should seek a centrist position. The left in this country, being never satisfied, is always agitating for change, and this constant pressure for leftward movement always seems to acheive some measure of success. Thus the country, thanks largely to Democratic congresses over the last 80 years or so - which only a small percentage of the country ever approves of - has been moving inexorably to the left, and dragging centrists and Republicans along with it. (As an example of this leftward drift, look at how few Republican candidates these days take a strong stand against abortion. Without getting into the question of whether abortion itself is right or wrong, the fact is that it’s become so well ingrained and over such a long period of time, that most people in the U.S. have come to accept it as a fact of life. Therefore, you find many fewer Republican candidates taking a strong stand against abortion anymore. And this is but one example of what I mean by the leftward drift the country has taken.)
Thus, to be a centrist means that you are constantly shifting your position to the left. Needless to say, if you’re a conservative this is not a good thing to have happen. So when I see people extolling the virtues of a centrist position politically, I see them extolling the virtues of someone whose position is constantly moving to the left. Thus I’m in agreement with Rush Limbaugh (on this particular issue) when he says that we need to oppose Obama and the Congress and get back to the basic, fundamental Repubicanism. The way to get the country to run the way we as conservatives think it should be run is not to keep going along part way with what the Democrats are always pushing to do.