The OP asked where were the liberal trolls. I’m no liberal.
As I pointed out, liberal trolls are a dime a dozen here, because they can get away with it. They couldn’t get away with trolling conservatives on a conservative board, so they do it here, because you and others let them get away with it.
Regards,
Shodan
Darkest timeline Shodan.
A liberal or conservative troll on a liberal or conservative message board may not be a troll - he might be on home turf.
A bee may be a pest in a kitchen, but in it’s hive, it’s not a pest; it’s a welcomed member of the community.
I’d like to say that I don’t post to get a rise. I mostly post to point out stupid things people say, or to make what I take to be a funny comment. And most fair observers would admit, that with the likes of Magellan, Magiver, Clothy or Adaher, there are a lot of stupid things being said on the conservative side. I’ll admit that I’m less likely to post about a stupid thing a liberal says, primarily because I want to test my beliefs against conservatives. If they’re right on a given policy, I want to know it.
If I were a troll, I’d think I’d have some pussy passive aggressive signature that followed every post.
I hope everyone you love gets Ebola,
Lobohan
Whatever you think of those guys, they aren’t trolls. I don’t see that they are just trying to get a rise out of people
I wonder about Der Trihs sometimes, but overall I do think he sincerely believes what we writes, every word. As for the others, no question they’re not trying to troll anyone.
Being confrontational and trolling are not the same.
**Der Trihs **is a very leftist liberal but he’s a genuine and respectable one.
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Der Trihs is a very leftist liberal but he’s a genuine and respectable one.
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Trolling and identifying someone as a troll is often in the eyes of the beholder. It’s also about gores and oxes. I can totally see how someone like Der Trihs or those people on Shodan’s list could be considered trolls (or many others…you mentioned NFBW, for instance)…and how some people think that Shodan (or you John…or me, for that matter) are trolls or trolling sometimes. To me, this board certainly leans left and also has a skeptical/scientific bent, and often people trot out what I think of as lures to tweak libertarians or conservatives (or the religious or folks with a CT or woo outlook, etc) that could be viewed as trolling. The thing is, since this board DOES bend a certain way it’s almost ingrained in the culture around here so it’s not seen as trolling or even particularly egregious…unless, of course, you are the one being gored by their ox or oxed by their gore.
Sez you, poopy-head.
By the definition of the OP, they are. And in the opinion of at least one mod, so am I, because I do the same. That’s part of what is meant by saying one can get away with trolling conservatives here - if I do it, it’s trolling in the opinion of several posters and at least one mod. If they do it, it ain’t.
I am not complaining about it - I am used to it, more or less, and Colibri is too honest to try to use/abuse his position as mod, but the tendency is there in the boards.
Fortunately, many or most of the liberals hereabouts are not trolls any more than I. And there are always the gems of completely un-self-conscious self-parody like Yog-Sothoth and ElvisL1ves and many of the rest of the Usual Suspects deposit on a regular basis.
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The thing is, since this board DOES bend a certain way it’s almost ingrained in the culture around here so it’s not seen as trolling or even particularly egregious…unless, of course, you are the one being gored by their ox or oxed by their gore.
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Quite true, and since the mods are all liberals, and the posters are overwhelmingly liberal, it is that much more likely that their oxen are gonna suffer and the mods are going to get a lot more Reports about the dozen conservatives than the thousand libs.
[QUOTE=Chefguy]
Sez you, poopy-head.
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I see what you did there. I think.
Regards,
Shodan
Going off of the ideas already expressed, it’s much easier to dismiss the contrarian or minority view as simple “trolling,” because by composition that view is not going to get substantial support.
As an example, there’s a recent thread in GD that expresses a commonly-held view among liberals: that the War on Poverty was a success.
Had I posted a thread positing the exact opposite, that the War of Poverty is an utter failure, the responses from the left-leaning SDMB would be swift and harsh. And because most people on this board are liberal, even the more vociferous responses would be considered legitimate because their conclusion is considered accurate by the majority. Thus, there may be several trollish posts in my hypothetical thread, but they get overlooked or legitimized simply because most people agree with the sentiment.
In a liberal environment, the conservatives who do express their contrarian opinions stick out like a sore thumb. Shodan is the exemplar of this phenomenon, and I almost take offense to the notion that he’s a troll. Just because he views the world different than you does not a troll make him.
Going back to the original question, I find Yahoo Answers a veritable independent ecosystem of trolls of every imaginable flavor and type. If you can’t find the troll you’re looking for there, you haven’t looked hard enough.
If the definition of troll hinges on the nature of the commentary to be deliberately inflammatory for its own sake, then DT doesn’t really meet the criteria- like you, I think he absolutely believes the absurd crap he posts, and he’s not necessarily trying just to get a rise out of anyone for its own sake.
But if the definition is basically swooping into a thread and posting absurdly inflammatory commentary that tends to just piss people off, and derail constructive discussion, then yeah, he fits the bill quite handily.
Several other posters fit this mold as well- Yog-Sothoth and ElvisL1ves come to mind, as does **Bricker **from an opposite perspective. I firmly believe that they wholeheartedly believe what they’re saying, but are just prone to outbursts, as it were.
**Shodan **and John Mace aren’t quite so inflammatory- they’re good examples of posters who can hold opinions contrary to the accepted norm around here, yet still not quite troll.
OP checking back in here. And yes, I don’t really view the liberal or conservative people being mentioned here as trolls. I’m thinking more of posts touting things like “OMG, Pelosi’s dumb because she doesn’t know the amendments” or “How dare the gummint give money to massage bunny feet” or (an oldie but a goodie) “Barack Hussein Obama isn’t qualified to be president because he thinks there’s 57 states”. I notice that even the usual conservative suspects here haven’t stepped up to defend these folks. They’re just letting them flap in the wind.
It’s a special kind of idiocy that I’m talking about.
I can’t say I disagree, but I’m trying to check my own biases. That said, I’m enjoying the heck of the discussion here, so, please, carry on!
Since I’ve been summoned…
I believe that as long as I state factual things, even in an incendiary manner, there’s no trolling. Off the top of my head, in liberal/conservative debates, I hold strong feelings on guns, abortion, regulation, extremism, religion, homosexuality, the role of government in the economy, GOP obstructionism, and a lot of other things. Not once do I remember stating something factually wrong, or, doing it to purposefully deceive in order to “win” a debate. My feelings come from experience or empirical observation. Of course I have to extrapolate from the experience of others, I cannot do personally experience everything.
I may have erred, I may have been lazy in research, but I try not to lie. Times where I’ve stated something outrageous may be for effect, but of the serious things I’ve said, I say because it is my sincere belief. However, I can’t resist a good joke and I admit to saying sometimes crazy things in a non-serious way in order to make a joke funnier. In times like that, I hoped to have made it clear that it was a joke.
Honestly, I’m not surprised at my reputation amongst some, but I don’t think I’m exactly a likeable person, so while disappointed, I’m not going to change. But if you think I’m just a troll, know that I debate by mixing analysis with insults because some of the shit that comes out of a conservative’s mouth is simply evil to me and I’m not about to start behaving nicely towards them and hope they change. I don’t fight ignorance, I insult it and mock it and make it feel bad. And I’ll dare anyone who doesn’t like what I say to look past the insults and see the actual points of the debate. If I can take your claims of trolling and stupidity heaped on me, then you can take the same when I do it to you.
Trollery doesn’t work for liberals, by which I mean that mildly center-left mass of milquetoast mensheviks. They are not merely willing to see the other side of things, they are embarrassingly eager to do so! They would be incapable of making a trolling post without a follow up “On the other hand…”.
Liberals are unduly affected by the “non-partisan” myth, cherishing the notion that partisanship is stupid, therefore, non-partisanship must be smart. As if there were only one way to be stupid! Some guy who can’t make up his mind which end of the rope to pull on, and he blandly expects to be admired for his neutrality, as if being indecisive were some secular humanist virtue.
As a flag-waving, red-blooded All-American radical lefty, I mourn with the poet, that “The center cannot hold…The best lack all conviction, while the worst/ Are full of passionate intensity…”
Fuck *that *shit!
Some of the Der Trihs knock-offs such as Naxos fit the bill pretty well as did the Stalinist apologist Commissar. Condescending Robot was a libertarian but he did criticize Obama from the left on a lot of issues.
As I recall, that silly “Conservapedia” project got trolled by supposed* liberals posting attempted parodies of conservative claims. They ended up locking down editing because they couldn’t tell what was from their supporters and what was from the trolls.
The affair demonstrated a problem with trolling/parodying conservatives; actual conservative beliefs are so extreme and so stupid that even conservatives themselves have great difficulty telling the difference between the real thing and mockery. If some liberal goes onto a conservative board and tries to troll them, I expect that they are more likely to just *believe *him/her instead of being offended.
*Although if someone is a troll and therefore a liar, knowing what they actually believe is problematic
The SDMB is at most in the middle, not a “bastion of liberalism”.
I think a persons definition of something being or not being trolling can be influenced, in either direction, by their politics. An “incompetent Bush” joke that might have mad you laugh won’t seem as funny when recycled as an “incompetent Obama” joke. (Or vice versa.)
My personal preference is, when dealing persons on the “other side” is to try to frame an insult so artfully that everybody else will know the person has been insulted but the actual person won’t be totally sure.
Although, just for fun, I do occasionally go over to Yahoo and let folks have it in the only form of discourse they seem capable of comprehending.
Genuine, perhaps. Respectable? :dubious: He’s not a troll, but his sincere posting gives us a bad name.