I am looking for a website that lists various family crests/coat of arms. All the ones I’ve found so far are retail places.
I’m not interested in buying, (not yet at least) I’m just curious as to what it looks like.
Suggestions?
Here is a list of surnames with connected coats of arms. On the main page of the same site, Heraldry on the Internet you can find more links.
If it is not in there, but you have a heraldic description, a so called blazon, of your coat of arms I could describe it for you and point you to images of the various components. This would of course not satisfy the artistic representation that your family would have traditionally embraced, but that on the other hand is not really part of the coat of arms as such, since all heraldry is based on heraldic standards. However, I take it that you know which country your family originated in, with which we could narrow down the style elements somewhat.
Sparc
None of those had my name listed, and the only description I could get was this:
I guess I’ll just have to shell out the $20 for one.
Which leads me to another question:
I was looking at my mother’s maiden name, (which is fairly common) and different sites showed different crests. How do I know which is the “real” one, or do they vary?
[sub]I must confess that I’m quite ignorant of such things.[/sub]
Don’t the people that sell them just make them up?
Cisco:
Yes. Most vendors actually make them up or buy lists of ‘common’ coats for a certain surname.
A coat of arms for a surname often belongs to specific member of a family surname. Usually the Clan Chief. Usually, even these are wrong or made up by these vendors.
Arms are usually created for each specific family (or family member) in a given clan.
Most of the above is Scots or Irish heraldry information, because these countries have actual laws pertaining to heraldry. As do many other European countries. The US is much less regulated.
The absolute best site for all info re: Heraldry is -
Their pare re: rights to a caot of arms -
http://www.heraldica.org/topics/right.htm
Another site’s page re: rights -
http://www.sog.org.uk/leaflets/arms.html
Hermn8r
Umm, it sounds like this is just something that grabbed your fancy. In that case be forewarned, just because your name does lead to a crest it does not mean that the crest was ever used in your family.
The first step to finding your families crest is doing either the long hard work of finding potential ancestors and seeing if they ever got a crest. Or the easier but more expensive route of hiring a professional researcher.
A lot of those sites that do sell you your crests are cheats just as much those coin companies selling those special limited edition coins memorializing people like Princess Di.
Also know that a lot of crests might have only applied only for 1 generation. For instance my 10th great grandfather, a merchant in London, did have a crest but it died with him.
Wow.
I had no idea there was so much involved with a coat of arms.
A couple of questions:
-
From the websites hermn8r mentioned: How do you know what your “right” to a coat is?
-
The people who are shilling crests on websites: Is there a method to how they make a coat? Or is it just a random gathering of symbols/colours?
-
Can I just make up my own coat of arms? Does it need to be registered with someone? How would you go about doing that?
-
Are a coat of arms, and a family crest the same thing?
Sorry to bombard everyone with questions, but I’m finding this quite interesting. Also, thanks hermn8r, those sites were very helpful.
A good article. Really a must read.
It should answer all your questions.
The College of Arms FAQ.
And here’s where they tell you how to get one. Right here. Yeesh. Looks like it’s over $5,000.
All of those sites have been great.
One thing I still don’t understand is why a family can keep track of it’s last name, but the different coats were lost over time.
Also, (a stupid question) what exactly was a coats purpose? The college of arms says " The use of arms on the jousting field and in battle became steadily less important but at the same time the civilian, social and antiquarian uses of heraldry grew. " They couldn’t have been used to widely, or as I stated before, we would all know what our CoA is. (if any existed in the first place)
Finally, are these guys crackpots? http://www.americancollegeofheraldry.org/
You are all fighting some serious ignorance here folks. Thanks again.
My 10th Great Grandfather purchased a coat of arms. I saw a picture of it in the Visitation of London of … 1635 I believe. I don’t know exactly how much he spent on it but I presume it was a lot. I presume he used it as something that he could put on his business papers to make him appear a better person to go into business with then just any old guy. None of his sons were anywhere near as successful as he was and when he died none of them could afford to pay the amount necessary to reapply for the crest and so it lapsed and that was the last the Beauchamps to have one. After a few generations, perhaps as little as two, it was all forgotten and that was that.
Probably because they had no use for it, while you always need a last name. At some point, my ancestors had a coat of arms. Don’t know how they got it, but probably someone liked the idea or he thought it would give him some respectability, or he was proud to have this coat at a time it was something people would notice. Then the XIX° century came, and coats of arms became things of the past (apart in the nobility) , and it probably became pointless or even silly to display one. Also, his descendants became poorer and would have no much use for it, anyway (on what would you display it? Wouldn’t the neighbors think you’re ridiculously prideful?).
In modern times, people became interested in things of the past, genealogy, place of origin, coat of arms (but also more generally old buildings, local history, renactments, you name it), but most probably our great-grand fathers couldn’t care less about these things, and they were quickly ignored and forgotten. Actually, I would even tend to think that not only they didn’t care, but probably prefered something looking modern on their paper letter rather than these silly coats their grand father put on it in backward times. We’re in the enlightened XIX° century, you know, not in the middle-ages any more…
When you’ve some interest in genealogy, it’s pleasant to know the job of your ancestors, where they lived, and what their coat of arms looked like if they happened to have one, but what would you do with a coat of arms? Display it on your front door? Our more recent ancestors didn’t have any more use for them and probably weren’t interested in genealogy, except if they were in the nobility. They probably had much more pressing things to do during their probably very limited spare time.
Look in your medicine cabinet, next to the toothbrushes. That’s where the Di’Chi’s keep our Crest. 
Heh heh.
I almost went for the cheap joke in my OP…Something about the “family Colgate”…
>> Where Can I find My Family Crest?
If your father was a hoopoe you should find the crest right on top of his head. 
It’s all rather simple you know. It started with the basic idea of intimidation. Paint a cool thing on your shield and it’s likely that some of the guys swinging a skegg-axe at you think you’re a cool guy as well, and we all know that cool guys are more likely to throw a mean punch in battle, or? In any case the Normans were the first ones to start using various motives on their shields in a personalized way. Although there was no real system the first heraldic insignia that was widely recognized is hence attributed to William the Conqueror and was reputedly three golden lions on a red bottom. This was however not on his shield, but the motive of a pennant that he and his closest guard rode under into battle. The observant reader might have noted a certain similarity to what heralds call England Ancient (the portion of the UK Royal and National Arms that represent England have three golden lions on red). When Bill took over the little island in the north in 1066 he kept using his insignia and eventually passed it to his son and the tradition of the English Royal arms were established.
Banners and pennants and what-not were a practical matter of survival through organization on the battle field since they helped you tell who and where you should be fighting. William’s little affectation caught on and instead of arbitrary signs chosen for the day more and more lords and vassals started using a standard that was personalized, often enough the same motive as on their shield. Enter the next significant development. During the high Middle Ages it became more lucrative and successful for the warring parties to capture men of good standing alive and ransom them than to kill them. Hence it was in the interest of the cool cats with estate and money to show who they were (call it life insurance if you will) so they started sporting their personal insignia on their shields and tunic and horse tunics, and pennants and… well, anywhere they could so that it would be clear that they were worth sparing. Meanwhile the age of tournaments was being ushered in.
There were a bunch of guys that made their living by roaming around the tournament circuit and acting like MCs, managers and promoters in what was quickly becoming The Sport of Europe at the time. The same guys were often enough acting as arbitrators and negotiators in battle. As things got more organized folks came to refer to them as heralds. To make a long story short these guys started collecting the various coats they encountered in a ‘roll of arms’. The earliest preserved and known roll of arms of any significance was executed by one Mathew Paris and dates to the early 13th century. When chaps in the heraldic profession met they exchanged notes and thus completed their collections to be used for identification in the list and on the field. It became a point of honor and a practical matter to not use someone else’s insignia.
Around this time the design of heraldry is also codified into rules. The basic tenant of these rules was that the design should be easily identifiable from distance, hence have strong contrast in the colors and that it should be so unique that it could not easily be mistaken for another one. Much importance was attached to symmetry, which to the modern eye can seem strange when you consider that three lions organized in a triangle all facing left is hardly symmetrical, but to a 13th artist it was. This interpretation stuck and still sticks.
The heralds were employed by anyone who could afford them and on the side they sold registration of arms to anyone who was interested in protecting their design from infringement. As such they created the first wide spread registration of trademarks. Boys that were in the green in a big way afforded themselves full time heralds and royalty soon sported colleges of arms. Noble titles came to carry an award of arms form the crown around this time. The colleges of arms awarded and still award patent of arms based on research that you are either entitled to a coat based on ancestry or that the registration you are trying to obtain does not infringe on any other known coat as per the rules of significant difference. They also reserve the right to refuse registration of designs that do not fulfill the rules of heraldry.
Hence it is still as in the past that the only sure way to protect your design is to go to a college of arms of note, only one survives, and that would be the one that belongs to Queen Elizabeth II, the UK College of Arms with link and price for registration already supplied by Osiris. Some other European countries maintain a college of arms as a branch to their patent offices, for instance Sweden, Germany and Denmark and some of those accept registration as well. In all cases the registration of a coat of arms will also be checked against known trademarks and these are the laws that regulate the registration, hence even the ruling of the Garter King of Arms (QEIIs highest ranking herald) can be overturned in a court of law if you try to use your coat of arms in a way that infringes on other insignia meant for public display or commercial exploitation. This in effect means that even a coat of arms used by your family for centuries will not be protected if you have ceased to actively use it in a public manner for a significant time.
This leads to what happened to heraldry… about a hundred and fifty years into the golden age of military heraldry the nature of battles started to change back to a more bloody sport of murder even for the rich guys. Although it is a gradual reversion to brutality the battle of Azincourt in 1415 is often given as the one battle that ended the widespread practice of taking hostages. Henry V was a little pissed that day so he ordered a few hundred noble knights and princes who had fought and lost under the French king executed instead of ransomed… let’s just say that this had some detrimental effect on the future willingness to surrender. Maybe not as important, but notably it also eliminated the need to be known to the enemy as an individual on the field, in fact it made it less than desirable to do so and there was a gradual shift towards only displaying your rank of command for practical purposes and rather less conspicuously too.
Heraldic display survived in the sports arena until tournaments went more or less all and completely out of fashion in the late 16th century (that being said team sports still apply heraldic style display even in America). Meanwhile, however the coat of arms had found a new and significant application within commerce and trade, namely marketing. Then as now the origin and legitimacy of services and goods was a competitive edge and what better way to display that in a simple way than to use the imagery already connected to the origin, which was usually a family, or guild. This practice survives to our day and is contrary what has been alluded to earlier in this thread very much alive and kicking. To mention a few notable examples: Ferrari, Chevron, Löwenbräu, BMW, pharmacies and the Red Cross.
Obviously the coat of arms also survives as national symbols and in Europe as regional and communal symbols. In monarchies with nobility it still carries social importance. And all over the Western world including the Americas heraldic insignia are a significant part of national ceremony, pomp and circumstance.
As for the whole crest thing, which is not the coat of arms, but only denotes the stuff that goes on top of the shield in the form of a helmet with decorations; this arises shortly after the registration of a decorated shield takes off and is largely a way of denoting the noble rank of the bearer. The type of helmet and the presence or absence of a certain type of crown is a significant part of this. The complete display consists of a shield bearing a coat of arms, a crest with helm decoration, shield bearers that hold the shield, a foundation that those stand upon and a motto. This is called an armorial display, and only arms of long tradition and significant standing have all of the components registered.
More information on most of all this can be found in the links provided earlier. If you are really bitten by the heraldic bug I recommend acquiring ‘The Art of Heraldry’ by Arthur Charles Fox-Davies, a 450 page A3 sized tome that pretty much is the bible of heraldry. It’s out of print, but it seems that Amazon has access to some second hand copies.
As for the OP I am afraid that the information given on the coat of arms is not quite enough for me to look up anything in my references. Clairobscur’s suggestion of a list of things to look for would be a good way to start and I too would suggest some genealogy research before venturing into the whole mess that is heraldry.
Hope that cleared something or other out…
Sparc
Go to a big library. Ask your question of the librarian.
Be prepared for a long, loud sigh.
There’s also the mantle, which is a cloth flowing from the area of the crestto the sides behind the shield and supporters.
For an example of an insanely complex coat of arms see HRH Prince Charles’s. And for a good example of a real grant of arms from the UK College of Arms, see Clive Christian Limited’s.
And of course, Scotland has a completely different system, whereby you can end up being hauled to court in front of the Lord Lyon for breaches of heraldic law.
In no way intending to disagree with you I must however point out that the mantle is part of the overall composition of the crest, which in fact consists of helmet, band/coronet, the mantle and the crest itself (an animal, animal part, or object that decorates the helmet).
In ecclesiastic heraldry the crest is absent and a hat replaces the helmet where the mantle is in the form of tassels. The type of hat denotes the rank of the carrying prelate.
In royal heraldry the helmet and crest is absent and replaced with a royal crown, which is unique for the title that the bearer has. The mantle flows from the crown and is often a red, or purple ermine coated mantle.
National heraldry will vary depending on the constitutional form. In municipal heraldry the crest, if present at all, is placed directly on the shield without helmet, mantle or band/coronet.
As waterj2 indicates with the example of Scotland the systems across heraldic jurisdictions are slightly different, but the above is pretty much the average state of affairs in Europe.
Sparc
-
It is about 99 percent likely (or more) that you have no right to bear any existing coat of arms.
-
If you were one of the few people who did have a right to bear arms, it is very unlikely that your family name would have anything to do with it. Arms (in England and Scotland, especially) were granted to individuals and only their direct descendants or their direct heirs have the right to display such arms.
-
If you are a European, there might be a law in your country that restricts displays of arms to those recognised by some heraldic authority to have a right to display arms. This is particularly true in England and Scotland.
-
If you are American, you are free to display whatever arms you like; however, it would be extremely discourteous and presumptous to display arms that actually belong to someone else. Feel free to invent your own arms, but make sure the design doesn’t already belong to someone else.
-
Please, please, please do not go through books looking up arms by family name. This method is guaranteed to help you find the wrong arms.
-
Take a look at http://www.heraldica.org/faqs/mfaq