Where can I learn how to replace the brake calipers on a 1993 Saab 9000?

Not that I actually expect that anyone here on the boards has actually done this procedure or anything, but I’ve got a 1993 Saab 9000 CD with disc brakes and the brake calipers are broken: they no longer want to pop back out or retreat so I’m getting a pretty horrible grinding noise from where the pads are being burned through.

Where’s a place that I can go to find out, step by step, how to replace the old calipers and put in new ones? Of course actual mechanics are a little bit wary of providing this information because they want to be paid to do it, and Googleing for appropriate key words has really only provided a bunch of sites trying to sell the same calipers for $80.

So, how do you go about replacing broken brake calipers in a 1993 Saab 9000?

What model and year was the car? :wink:
But seriously folks,
Try the Haynes or Chilton manuals for your make and model. Probably more than you ever wanted to know about fixing your car. Available at stores like Napa/AutoZone/etc.

Don’t jump right in and assume that your calipers are broken. That scraping noise most often means that the brake pads are worn to a nub, and need replacing.
Your library should have a copy of the Haynes or Chilton manual for your SAAB.
The first time I replaced brake pads, it took me a couple of hours. You want to be sure you do everything right. Last time I did it, it only took an hour.
If the problem really is the calipers, the manual should tell you how to do that too.

Haynes manuals are a pretty god place to start. It isn’t a difficult procedure and it will most likely be possible to repair the callipers in situ if the damage isn’t too bad.

Sometimes when the pads are worn down to next-to-nothing, particularly over a long period in a damp climate, the pistons become corroded and the seals damaged, or they just ‘tilt’ a little in their bores when fully extended, so they won’t retract when the brake pedal is released.

If you are lucky you will be able to insert a tool (a pair of screwdrivers positioned to equalise the load will usually start them off, then a cranked spanner that is a comfortable fit to complete) between the disc and the pad and force it back into its bore. When you have done one, support the disc before applying pressure to retract the second piston. There are special tools available but they are not always necessary.

Be careful though, some pistons need to be WOUND back into their bores. If this is the case they have ‘castellation’ at the ends of the pistons.

You would then need to clean and carefully examine the pistons and if possible the bores. Any serious corrosion or scoring would pretty much render them useless. It can be a trial to fit new seals, getting the pistons out of their bores with the calliper removed from the car is difficult. Using hydraulic pressure while they are still on the car is seriously messy and you will need to purge the whole braking system afterwards.

If they do look compromised, your best bet short of new ones would be to try to get some service exchange callipers. Don’t feel you have to go to the SAAB dealer for this, there are other sources.

God you guys are quick!

Haynes will be the better bet for your Saab. They have a large catalog of manuals for imports.
Anecdotally, Autozone stores around OKC tend to have a larger selection of Haynes manuals than the other large chains although if I go all the way down to the warehouse store, NAPA has nearly all of them, too. YMMV.

I’d do that too, but if for some reason you can’t find one for your car, try Alldata.

To continue in the vein started by Squink:

I’ll assume that you know for certain that there’s a grinding noise when braking.

Now, do you know for an absolute fact that the calipers are not releasing, or are you assuming that? As Squink mentioned, it’s typical to get a grinding noise from badly worn pads, particulary when applying the brakes, without having a caliper problem.

If the calipers are not releasing, the noise would likely be constant when the vehicle is moving, and the wheel(s) would be difficult or impossible to rotate by hand. If this is the case, the next step is to find out why they’re not releasing. It could be from a faulty master cylinder, a faulty brake hose, or a faulty caliper.

If you figured the calipers needed replacing based on no more evidence than the grinding noise, I would suggest you find someone knowledgeable to work together with you and show you the ropes. While working on brakes isn’t generally very difficult, there are ample opportunities to do something wrong. It would be hard a book (or a poster here) to foresee and pre-empt every possible mistake.

I used to use a grease gun for this–screw a nipple fitting into the bleed screw hole. Compressed air will also work, usually, but be sure to put a piece of wood between the pistons to keep them from colliding. AND, be very certain your fingers are NOT in the way.

Holy cow, 8 views and 7 responses, thanks for all of the info.

At the last Napa store I was at, they didn’t have the Haynes manual for my Saab, although I’ll look into tracking one down.

Anyway, I think it’s a caliper problem because that’s what a Barnesly Tire shop told me. I took it into them because I was having that noise while braking, and they were confident that it was a caliper problem. It seems consistent to the noise that I’ve been experiencing. There’s a lot of brake dust coming from that wheel, and after braking (horrible loud, screeching noise) during reacceleration the sound is much quieter and disappears completely once the car reaches speed and disappears until the brake is reapplied. Basically, it all seems consistent with the idea that the brake system is fine with closing down, but this caliper’s “rebound” is faulty.

Unfortunately, they also wanted $404 to repair the problem. That seems a bit steep to me namely becase:

  1. They insist upon replacing the calipers symetrically because they are a hydraulic component. This seems uneccessary to me given that the “new” caliper will be a reconditioned one that is just as likely to have the same resistance, effeciency, and stopping power as one 1,000 miles down the road.

  2. They also insist upon a new rotor, and based upon what I’ve seen of the rotor, I just don’t think this is necessary. Given that pads and rotors will wear together quickly, why does the entire rotor need to be replaced? I’d like to hear your opinions on this.

  3. Anyway, the calipers they are offering to replace the old ones with are $40 over the Napa price.

I’ve looked into the Haynes manuals. Unfortunately, the cheapest one I can get ahold of would be around $50, and the library doesn’t have my car.

Thoughts?

http://enfo.com/library/ill/

It might cost you a few bucks, but still be cheaper than buying.

I just checked Haynes’ site. They don’t show a model-specific manual for Saab after 1988. That makes things a bit trickier. My next recommendation would be AllData’s DIY website, www.alldatadiy.com .
It’s $25/year for the first vehicle, $15 for each one thereafter. The data available should be comprehensive and accurate. It should also provide complete instructions on replacing pads, replacing calipers, and bleeding the brake lines as well as fault diagnosis tables specific to your car. If it doesn’t, ask for a refund.

Not bad practice on a 12 year old car. The logic is that if one is failing, the other probably isn’t in excellent shape.

It probably is necessary. Brake rotors should be smooth and shiny. If they are scored or grooved, they are not servicable. In the Good Old Days, we took the rotors off and used a lathe to re-surface them. Most newer rotors can stand very little scoring before there is not enough metal left to support a lathe job. They are made thinner to save weight. At the same time, cutting them too thin will result in a distinct loss of braking efficiency, leading to fade and possible loss of braking power.

Such markups are common, unfortunately. On top of that, they can probably get them for less than you will pay for them. If you convince the shop to let you bring in your own parts, make a detailed list of those parts and give one copy to the service manager to attach to the service ticket, leave one copy with the parts for the technician, and keep one for yourself. Insist that the old parts be returned to you. With rebuilt calipers, there will be a core charge, or deposit. You’ll need the old calipers to recover that charge.

This repair is not outside the ability of the amateur semi-skilled mechanic. The hardest parts will be bleeding the brake lines and seperating the rotors from the hubs. You’ll need a moderately comprehensive toolkit, including a full set of sockets in 1/2" and 3/8" drive, combination wrenches, line wrenches, and possibly a specialty set of pliers for reindexing the calipers. Removing the hub will also likely require a bearing packer and a grease gun. A bench vise may also prove helpful. I highly recommend borrowing a good torque wrench when reassembling everything.

If any Saab afficianados want to chime in, feel free. My advice is based on a broad variety of makes from Benz to BMW to Chevy to Toyota. I’ve never worked on Saab or Volvo but I am aware that they can be very different from non-Scandanavian cars in some respects.

There are probably things I’m missing. Consult a good manual for further details.

It seems consistent to the noise that I’ve been experiencing.
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Sorry for asking if you’ve already said this… Which wheel is this? Front or Rear?

It’s kind of important because while the rear break calipers can be WOUND back, as stated earlier, I don’t believe the front can on a SAAB.

Is there a grinding noise? Vibration at the wheel in question?
Likely the pad is warn down to the metal backing plate. The dust, if you pick some up off the wheel with your finger tip, is it grity? Metalic grit? If so, you’re grinding the plate and rotor surface.

I agree. This is completely unnecessary. Just replace the faulty part, if it is indeed faulty.

Don’t know if you are able to see the back of the rotor by sticking your head under the car. That is very likely where the warn pad is. You may have to remove the wheel to get a proper look at the inside of the rotor. How long have you been driving like this? Under what kind of conditions? The wear and tear on the rotor will depend on this and your driving (braking) style. There will almost certainly be grooves in the surface that are deeper than you’ll find in normal wear conditions.

You can have the rotor in question turned on a shop lathe to smooth out the surface somewhat but there are thickness tollerances to consider. You can’t remove too much surface metal. If the grooving is not too bad (i.e. turning is an acceptable option) then, paradoxicly speaking, I would not bother. A new pad will get a bit torn up while wearing in but will eventually wear in. It may not last as long as with a good smooth rotor but I don’t know how quickly you wear your brakes so it may or may not be an issue in the long run.

Reconditioned parts should come at a pretty reasonable discount. At least 25% less than new. Also compare warranties of new vs. reconditioned.

Finally, $404 for two calipers, pads and labour isn’t bad at all.

No it doesn’t.

I have the disadvantage of not seeing the car, and not having a crystal clear description of the symptom. But what you’ve described does not support, much less confirm, the notion of a caliper fault.

GRINDING NOISE AND/OR HORRIBLE LOUD, SCREECHING NOISE WHEN APPLYING BRAKES:
Almost certainly at least one pad’s lining has worn away, causing the pad’s metal backing to dig into the rotor. This is not uncommon. It does not mean there’s a caliper problem. While there could be a caliper problem, 99% of the time when this grinding is occurring the calipers are fine.

TIRE SHOP GUYS SAY IT’S A CALIPER PROBLEM:
Well, maybe they’re right. But more likely, they’re entry-level workers who don’t fully understand braking systems and can’t diagnose them properly. They’ve been trained to sell and trained to replace parts. They have not been trained to have sound mechanical judgment. If they didn’t release brake fluid at certain key points to analyze the problem, THEY ABSOLUTELY DO NOT – REPEAT, NOT – KNOW WHAT IS CAUSING IT.

LOTS OF BRAKE DUST:
If it’s really brake dust, and there’s lot more than from any other wheel, it would point towards a sticking caliper. If it’s metal powder/filings from the rotor that’s being dug into, it’s meaningless – just a companion symptom to the noise.

NOISE IS MUCH QUIETER, THEN DISAPPEARS AFTER BRAKE PEDAL IS RELEASED:
Suggests normal caliper operation. Understand that caliper pistons only retract slightly, and that the pads normally “kiss” the rotor with the brakes off. If you have noise when pressing on the brake pedal, and no noise when not pressing on the brake pedal (or, as you’ve described, tons of noise then only a tiny bit of noise), the calipers CANNOT be sticking.

DO THIS:
Jack up the end of the car with the noisy brakes. Rotate the affected wheel by hand (tranny in neutral, handbrake off). Note the effort required. Have a friend step on the brake pedal, or jam the pedal on with a stick of some sort. Try to rotate the affected wheel by hand. Can’t do it. Release the brake pedal and try to rotate the wheel. If you still can’t turn it (or couldn’t turn it in the first place), the caliper is sticking on. If you can turn it, the caliper has released.

And if the caliper is sticking, the cause may be external to the caliper (brake hose, master cylinder).

1. They insist upon replacing the calipers symetrically because they are a hydraulic component. This seems uneccessary to me given that the “new” caliper will be a reconditioned one that is just as likely to have the same resistance, effeciency, and stopping power as one 1,000 miles down the road.
It is standard procedure to replace brake parts on both sides to ensure evenness of operation. It probably isn’t necessary, and the do-it-yourselfer can make his own decision, but a shop doing this professionally doesn’t want to risk the lawsuit from failing to follow commonly accepted practices. The replacement caliper will have a new seal, and possibly a new piston, and will probably not act just like one that’s been in service for thousands of miles.

2. They also insist upon a new rotor, and based upon what I’ve seen of the rotor, I just don’t think this is necessary. Given that pads and rotors will wear together quickly, why does the entire rotor need to be replaced? I’d like to hear your opinions on this.
Again, maybe not necessary, but if the rotor is deeply scored, or already below minimum thickness specs, a shop is going to replace it. It’s really hard to explain to a judge why you didn’t follow the car manufacturer’s explicit instructions in brake repair.

3. Anyway, the calipers they are offering to replace the old ones with are $40 over the Napa price.
The shop is probably paying the same as you are (or preciously close to it) for the calipers. When you have a business, you mark up things you sell. It’s absolutely stupid not to – might as well not be in business. If you want the cheap price, do it yourself. If you want a shop’s expertise and warranty, pay their price.

As usual Gary T got here first with good info just let me rif on that for a moment:

So just what do you think is making that horrible loud screeching noise? [hint: its not an MP3 player under the hood] The loud grinding noise you are hearing is the metal of the rotor being ground away by some other part of the brake system. Assuming that these are not terribly new rotors, they are already worn, it does not take much at that point to put them under what is repairable by turning them on a brake lathe. FYI all brake rotors have a minimum thickness spec. at which point they are no longer serviceable, and must be replaced. This spec will be cast into the rotor hub area, on a SAAB it will be in mm. Look for something like min thick 20.0mm on the hub area of the hub area of the rotor. Also don’t forget that a rotor has two sides, the problem is probably on the back side where you cannot see it by looking in through the wheels.

Frankly, that is cheap as hell, almost two cheap. I don’t work on SAABs, but I do work on Volvo and that is a very reasonable price for two calipers, new pads and rotor (1 or 2) with labor. I know of some cars where a single caliper could set you back 600-700 dollars for just the part.

Two things here, first off the “rebound” of the caliper is a very simple almost bullet proof system. Here is a simple explanation: You have an o-ring that has a square cross section. The outer portion of the o-ring sits in a square cut grove in the caliper. A very tight fitting piston is forced inside the ID of the o-ring. When the brakes are applied, brake fluid is pushed under pressure and forces the piston out of the caliper just a tiny bit (the pads only clear of the rotor about 0.002" or so). The piston doesn’t move very far at all. When the pad moves forward, the square cut o-ring deforms as its ID tries to stay in the same place on the piston. So if you were looking at a cross section of the o-ring with the brakes applied, the outer part of the o-ring would be in the same position as when the brakes are off, the inner portion would be pushed (distorted) in the direction of the piston travel. Think parallelogram. When you let off the brakes, the pressure in the caliper is released, and the seal returns to being square in cross section, and as the seal retracts, the piston goes along for the ride. This distortion/return is what retracts the piston. Assuming that the dust boot on the piston is intact it is, as I said, almost bullet proof. There is another possibility, however that no one has mentioned. Some modern cars do not have calipers that have two pistons one on each side of the rotor, rather they have a single piston or some times 2 pistons both on the same side of the caliper. This caliper has a slider arrangement where pressure on one side is transferred to the other side so both pads press with equal force. Sliders can and do get corroded and stop sliding particularly if you are in an area where it snows. This stuck slider can cause on pad to wear abnormally fast, and the other to wear at slower rate. On sliding caliper systems uneven pad wear is for sure an indication of a bad slider. On some calipers, the sliders can be repaired, on others it cannot, and the entire caliper must be replaced.
**I do not know if your SAAB has a fixed or sliding caliper **