Where did the Christian idea of Hell come from?

Factual Questions
21

The current images of hell certainly find their seeds in the New Testament. The problem with citing the Old Testament/Tanakh, however, is that you are reading later translations that were made by Christians, a point that stongly influenced the words chosen for “hell.” In the Hebrew bible the references that are translated as “hell” in English language bibles are usually either Sheol or Gehenna. Sheol was the dank afterworld to which all souls were consigned, regardless of the quality of life one had led. It was very close in concept to that of the Greek Hades. Gehenna was a valley south of Jerusalem which had been the site of human sacrifices to pagan gods and was later used as a trash heap. It was a place of smoldering fires and stench and the bodies of rebels were tossed there rather than being given a decent burial on a couple of occasions. Jeremiah and Isaish each invoked the image of Gehenna as a place where those who were so sinful as to be without redeeming valley were “tossed away” into the fires.

Later, when the Jewish people began exploring concepts of reward and punishment in the afterlife (whether borrowed from Zoroastrianism or taken from ideas of the time which were, themselves either adopted by or donated by Zoroastrianism), the name Gehenna was applied to the place of punishment and the image of the fires in that place were used to create the imagery. A number of intertestamental works (books written after the last Hebrew book and before the New Testament that were never adopted as Scripture by either Christians or Jews) created an extensive theology and imagery regarding the place of punishment that has now been adopted (with some revisions) by most Christian groups. These books included Assumption of Moses and Apocaplypse of Baruch, and in 3 Esdras. (3 Esdras is a name given to a Greek copy of Chronicles, Ezra, and Nehemiah that includes additional stories and verses not found in the Hebrew originals.)

Pointing to a reference to the word “hell” in an English language Old Testament simply does not mean what it appears.

22

SlowMindThinking — of course Diocletian wasn’t a Christian. He is noted for persecuting Christians. Where did I or anyone else claim he was a Christian?

23

My question was not “When did anyone burn Manicheans?”. It was a question in response to the claim that Catholics burned them.

24

I was responding to Hypno-Toad. But my “not the popes” should have also answered your question in the negative.

25

I must point out that there are three words–Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus–that appear in the Greek of the New Testament and, although they are rather indiscriminately rendered as “hell” in traditional English translations, they are not interchangeable. The Septuagint, a rendering of the Old Testament into Greek, translates “Sheol” as Hades; indeed, the above-mentioned quote from the second chapter of Acts is from Psalm 16:10 (KJV) where Sheol is used in the Hebrew original. (Interestingly enough, when Peter says this on the day of Pentecost, he is referring to Jesus; and the notion that Jesus went to a Sheol or Hades that was a fiery “hell” is unthinkable.)
As for Tartarus, that word appears only at 2 Peter 2:4; the Douay Catholic Version renders it as “lower Hell.” This is where, according to Peter, the “angels that sinned” were banished to. There is in fact no statement anywhere in the Bible that Satan is, was, or will be, in Hades.
In Job 14:13, Job prays to God to be protected in hell from the torments he was suffering. Job knew nothing of the hell described in Dante’s works. I am hard put to imagine Job wanting to be protected in a place of fiery torture.
And the Preacher didn’t mention it either:
“For the dead are not conscious of anything…there is no…knowledge in Sheol, the place where you are going.” --Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10.
“The wage sin pays is death.” --Romans 6:23. [Death, not eternal torture]
“The soul that is sinning–it itself will die.” --Ezekiel 18:4, 20.
I should note also that the New Testament, even in the King James Version, mentions in several placers “everlasting destruction,” not eternal toture.

26

Hey all, I usually lurk here but I felt compelled to reply to this thread.

I just finished my minor in religion at East Texas Baptist University and, growing up with the doctrine of “Armstrongism” wanted to learn from Baptist instructors the concept of “Hell.” Interestingly enough, the PhD’s at school, although Baptist, were quick to point out the problems with the modern view of Hell.

The post above mine mentions a few of the Bible quotes on the subject (ie “The dead know not anything”) and a reading of I Corr. 15 and all of Revelation suggest not an eternal punishment but rather a “resurrection to judgement” (judgement usually rendered as “damnation”). Since there has already been a discussion of Sheol, Hades, etc. I’ll skip over that part.

Israelites had no real concept of an afterlife, or even resurrection, during OT times. Progeny were your way of living forever.

However, we can’t really discuss Hell without mentioning the concept of Heaven. That is another subject where modern Christianity has really come a long way from, say, Paul’s time. Christ himself said “No one has ascended to Heaven but [me].” (John 3:13…I always found it funny that people never seem to have read three verses up from their favorite quote.) In a purely Biblical understanding, the dead are asleep and are not aware of anything at all. The “dead in Christ” are supposed to rise and meet him in midair at the second coming, to rule with him for the thousand years. Afterwards (around the time Satan is “loosed from his bonds for a little while”) comes the second resurrection of the dead. This one probably includes the majority of the dead. All the people who have been “preached into Hell”, such as the babies in deepest, darkest Africa or whatever, are judged. To me, this judgement would be of a somewhat different nature, considering it is their first chance to know Christ. Finally, after the Beast and False Prophet have been case alive into the lake of fire (the only real mention of eternal torture) comes the final resurrection; the resurrection of the incorrigibly wicked. My personal guess would be those who KNOW there is a God and willingly reject him. Speculation on my part, but it seems logical. They’re cast into the lake of fire and consumed. There is no mention of eternal torture for them. They just cease to exist at all.

Where most people find a justification for the wicked being tortured forever is in Revelation 14:11 “and the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever”, referring to those who worship the beast. But in context, the verse is referring to living, breathing people. In short, if I burn you to death, the smoke will keep rising long after you assume room temperature.

Apparently, the eventual home of Christ, God, and those judged not to be incorrigibly wicked is right here; well, technically “New Earth”. New Jerusalem is seen coming from the sky with the streets of gold and those famous gates of pearl.

At any rate, though I minored in RLGN and attend a Christian university, I don’t know that all this is correct. I know what the whole of the Bible says about it, and I like to believe that I’m right, but I might not be. Take the above with a grain of salt if you like. Most importantly (particularly for Christians) don’t ever base a belief on one obscure passage. The Bible is a book to be understood in totality.

27

BlakeTyner- Thank you so very much! I have been telling people for years (mostly Christian evangel. types) that you don’t go to Heaven or Hell when you die according to the Bible. That you are simply awaiting the Second Coming and will be called up at that time. The whole “tunnel of light” with loved ones there waiting for you is completely without support in the Bible. Same for ghosts of people once living in a particular area.
Thanks again. Your informed input and quotes have been a real help.

28

I suspect that while some people will look to Revelation to support the notion of eternal torment, the idea is most quickly conveyed (along with the idea that the dead do not simply sleep in suspension until the judgment) from the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16: 19 - 31.

I am aware that this is a parable and I am not about to argue what is the “correct” interpretation. I am only pointing out that the parable was delivered to an audience who would have had to accept some of its premises in order for it to be meaningful and that I would guess that that passage, more than the passage in Revelation, gives rise to the popular notions regarding hell.

29

As tomndebb said- the roots of a Hell as a place of punishment do go back to late Judaism. See Isa 30:33, where he talks about the “Fires of Tophet”. There are other mentions of some sort of hell in the Old Testament- Isa 28:18, Psalms 63:9, Job 33:24. Thus, NO the Christians didn’t make Hell* (as a place) up. But even in the New Testament, there aren’t a lot of mentions of Hell. (my Concordance only lists 5).

However- the imagery of Dante’s Inferno (if you can’t read Dante, try "Inferno the SF novel by Pournelle and Niven) and such show up in Catholic Mythology, fairly late in the game.
*Not talking about the word.

30

Blake said :

<My personal guess would be those who KNOW there is a God and willingly reject him. Speculation on my part, but it seems logical. They’re cast into the lake of fire and consumed. There is no mention of eternal torture for them. They just cease to exist at all.>
In my reading of the Bible I certainly recall passages suggesting ‘destruction’ and the lake of fire etc … which sounds more ‘humane’, if you like, than eternal torture anyway… if one was to choose…

However there ARE references to eternal punishmnet

eg: Matthew 25:46 ‘they will go away into eternal punishmnet and the upright to eternal life’

BTW there is a piece of writing attributed to Jospehus called Discourse on Hades, which I would guess reflects common views around the time of Christ - including a lake of fire where the wicked are ETERNALLY punished.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/josephus-hades.htm

31

[quote=“StephenH, post:5, topic:303548”]

I don’t know what these guys are talking about, but Christians get the idea of Hell from the Bible. There are numerous mentions of it throughout the Old Testament and New Tesament.
These are just a few:

Old Testament:

Prov 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.

Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Ezek 31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
The Old Testament is Christian, not Jewish. Lets see what the Tanakh, the Jewish version, the original version actually says:

Prov. 9:18 But he does not know that shades are there; her guests are in the depths of the grave.

Psalms 139:8 If I ascend to the heavens, there You are, and if I make my bed in the grave, behold, You are there.

Psalms 16:10 For You shall not forsake my soul to the grave; You shall not allow Your pious one to see the pit.

Ezekial 31:16 From the sound of his fall I made the nations quake, when I lowered him into the Grave with those who descend into the Pit, and they were consoled in the nether part of the earth, all the trees of Eden, the choice and the best of the Lebanon, all those that drink water.

When we speak that someone is in the grave, it means the place in the ground where we have buried them. That’s it. We have no concept of hell. Christianity did not get this concept from Judaism. Christianity got this concept from Roman paganism and they changed our scriptures to match their beliefs. This was a bad translation job. If the Bible is divinely inspired did the Almighty forget his Hebrew from the first book he wrote?

32

I suspect that it would be more accurate to note that Judaism, just as Christianity, has more than one tradition and that among the various Jewish traditions are those that refer to an after life and those that do not. (This is not even a recent division: the Sadducees and the Pharisees are two groups that struggled during the first century, that held competing beliefs, with the Sadducees holding that no afterlife existed while the Pharisees believed not only in an afterlife, but in a resurrection.)

I would agree that a number of passages in Scripture to which Christians look include imperfect, (or even “bad”), translations. However, Christians did not set out to mis-translate Scripture. Rather, since Christianity drew most of its converts from the pagans of the Roman Empire, they tended to be more familiar with Greek than Hebrew, so the early Christians relied on the Septuagint–the translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek carried out by Jewish scholars over 125 years before Jesus was born–rather than changing the meanings of passages, themselves.
I am unaware of any significant passages of the Septuagint that were modified by Christians.

Beyond that, as I noted in my first post, many of the beliefs regarding an afterlife were described by Jewish authors before there ever was a “Christianity.” While there may have been some borrowing from Roman mythology, pretty much every idea that Christianity describes regarding an afterlife appears in Jewish literature written before Jesus was born.

33

The concept of the christian hell cam from the Helheim in the Norse religion it is pretty close to the christian hell except it was for those who died through cowardice here is a small discription Hel (The Underworld) - Norse Mythology for Smart People

34

It might have been the other way around - that the Norsemen got the idea (and incorporated it into their mythology) from contact with Christians thru raiding and captives.

Regards,
Shodan

35

The idea that Satan rules Hell probably comes from Zoroastianism. If you read Revelations, it’s pretty clear that Hell is the Devil’s prison, not his kingdom.

Even in Dante’s Inferno, Satan is frozen in ice, pretty much impotent, in the deepest, coldest, most remote portion of Hell.

36

Partly from scriptures - interpreting the OT in the ‘light’ of the NT, but also partly because we are all part of the plan, our insight is no less so then a OT prophet as we all have the same spirit, the Holy Spirit.

37

My personal Hell - getting sucked into reading Zombie threads eternally.

38

Having read your linked article, I am afraid that I must point out that the second paragraph in that article exactly contadicts your claim, here.

39

for anybody who seems to have possibly misunderstood, I think the OP is asking because, while the Bible does mention hell, the concept is never really thoroughly described

40

It’s definitely a Christian thing. Jewish opinions on the afterlife are diverse, but best summarized by my confirmation class rabbi, who said, “We don’t know.” There is nothing in the Jewish Bible that Jews interpret as referring to Hell. There is a belief that (at least some of) the dead will be resurrected, and there are a lot of “colorful stories” in the Talmud that suggest the great rabbis sit around a table in the afterlife debating fine points of the law. :slight_smile: But that’s about it for canon.

On a slight tangent, the idea of eternal damnation is the single thing I find most off-putting about (many branches of) Christianity. I don’t think it is possible for a good, omnipotent being to eternally punish a creature for any finite crime commited during a finite life lived with extremely limited information about God. Basically, if there is a Hell, and if you need to accept Jesus Christ during your lifetime to avoid it, then either God is evil, or He is not capable of rescuing his creatures from it. This partial rescue of only those creatures who guess the correct true religion during their lifetime is NOT what a good, omnipotent God would do.