Well, it’s a little ambiguous. The word is lalein, which literally means, “to talk.” It carries a connotation of active, ongoing talking which is a little different than legein (“to speak”), and actually, a better way to translate lalein is probably “to converse.” It can also mean to “prattle” or to “lecture,” but it’s primary meaning is just to talk. I don’t see “gossip” in my lexicon, specifically but could at least occasionally carry a mildly imprecatory tone akin to “Chatter,” or “gab.”
The entire sentence is [symbol]Ou gar epitpepitai autaiV lalein.[/symbol] (“For it is not permitted for them to talk/chatter/converse.”)
I guess it’s a question of interpretation. It would still be a mildly sexist impecation even if Paul told women not “prattle” in church.
I was told (and you can bet that when my email remembers how to actually send email, I’ll be asking my father about this) that the translation went more “Women shouldn’t gab [in Church]” though I may be remembering another, but related, verse.
Any case, Paul is, as is rather commonly known, not known for quelling his gender bias, and his attitude toward a few things (sex, women, goats, Dick Clark) makes the validity of his statements more difficult to establish for some.
Dirk, I’d wager that what one takes as evidence of a particular stance being in accordance with/dicatated by/condoned by/etc. the Bible would probably change more than slightly substantially as you went from the Bible thumpers to the less zealous in their christian zeal;) IOW, what you take as evidence of X may mean nothing to me, and what I take as evidence of X you may well take as being in direct opposition to X. That’s the ::sigh:: glory of the Bible. Or so I am told.
1 Corinthians 14:33-35 (Hos en pasais tais ekklesiais ton hagion) hai gynaikes en tais ekklesiais sigatosan. Ou gar epitpepetai autais lalein, alla hypotassesthosan, kathos kai o nomos legei. Ei de ti mathein thelousin, en oiko tous idious andras eperotatosan, aischron gar estin gynaiki lalein en ekklesia.
(as in all the churches of the saints) women in the churches should be silent, for it is not permitted for them to (talk/chatter/gab). But they should be subordinate as also the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, in the home their husbands they should ask. For it is shameful for a woman to (talk/chatter/gab) in the church.
This is about the most literal translation I can manage. I even preserved the word order as much as I could. The syntax seems a little awkward in English but I was trying to convey the Greek as much as I could.
I think the verb, lalein (same verb both times) by itself could easily refer to distracting prattling rather than serious speech (albeit, that’s still rather sexist) but the bit about being subordinate and refraining from asking questions seems to indicate a deeper level of misogyny.
I’ve been reading this thread with mild interest because of the gay marriage in the news these days, not that I give a fig about homosexuality one way or another. My attitude has always been: I do my thing and you do yours, solong as you don’t try to impress your leanings on me.
What suprised me from reading this thread was the biblical injuntion against blending textiles… does anyone know the reasoning behind this ?
The reason for the wool-linen prohibition isn’t really known with any certainty but there are several theories. The Talmud says that wool and linen represent the conflicting gifts of Cain and Abel (sheep and flax) and that they are somehow destructive if combined.
Other explanations suggest that it stems from ancient superstitions about mixing things together and the “magical” properties that would be produced. This general idea sounds most plausible to me.