Where in the Bill of Rights does it say you're entitled to a car?

Keep your balls brassy, Jon. No car for Junior till he gets off his ass and gets a job. God invented McDonald’s so 16 year olds could earn money for their cars, appreciate hard work and be motivated to go to college so they won’t have to flip burgers the rest of their lives. He was damn lucky to have one bought for him to begin with. IMHO, no 16 year old should be behind the wheel, period, unless they are practicing driving on an abandoned road somewhere or grandma is having a heart attack and they’ve gotta get her to the ER.

When I was in high school I knew kids who went through 4 cars by the time we graduated. One girl I knew totalled a BRAND NEW, extremely nice car and her parents bought her a new one!
Ask me if those kids ever appreciated anything they had!

I didn’t go to prom; I didn’t go to the senior ski trip; I didn’t go to the beach one summer, all because I couldn’t pull together the logistics to hop a ride, because my parents were trying to "teach me a lesson."

Fine, since nobody else will ask, I will: what didya do to get yourself in such deep shit with your parents, Sofa King? I can hardly think they pulled all those privileges (yes, privileges, not rights) from you without just cause.

My parents bought me two cars before I graduated, it didn’t keep me from having a deep appreciation of the things I had and hard work that goes into buying them.

Not every priviledged kid is a spoiled brat. My parents may have given me material things, but they also made sure I had a good work ethic.

Let’s see if I can tie up the loose ends here:

Yes, the car was a beater, an 84 Toyota Camry, that his sister had been driving for the last three years after she got her license. I’d already put $1,400 into it for a rebuilt transmission, and we were hoping to squeeze a few more years out of it.

Because of its age, and because I was a teenage boy once, too - hence, the karma line - we did take pains to tell my stepson that he would have to keep an extra careful eye on the dipstick and particularly on the oil pressure light. But as he likes to do with my blood pressure light, he perfers to see just how far he can get before things blow.

Was he fully at fault? No. But he bears some responsibility, and finally acknowledged that.

Nor do I feel any remorse in pitting him. Not everything I wrote were my actual words to him. I consider this message board a good way to blow off steam before and after aggravating encounters. But he got the gist of it.

Will we get another car? Likely, but he’s going to have to work for it. And that means helping me, cheerfully - OK, sans whining - with some major landscaping we’ve been planning. Work will set you free.

We’d rather he hold off on a job until summer, because we want him to concentrate on school work.

Am I giving in? No. This isn’t a gift. He is going to work for it. And the point will be made repeatedly that the car still is a privilege and not an entitlement, and as such, can be denied at any time for just cause.

It is worth it to Mrs. Scribe and me to not have to drive him everywhere, so there’s value in him being able to drive. And if he has a car, preferably a beater (well-maintained, but a beater nontheless) then I don’t have to worry about what he’s doing to my car.

I’m beginning to understand why my dad smiles when I tell him these stories.

Among other things, I wouldn’t play high-school soccer, SnoopyFan. It’s a long story and I don’t much like to talk about it, but the basic issue was one of independence. I desperately wanted it, and my folks didn’t trust me enough to give it. Keeping me from having a car was one way of ensuring that I didn’t get it. Restricting my mobility also kept me close to home, so when I did get in trouble, which wasn’t any more often than most kids, my folks found out about it. Which kept me in trouble, and kept me from having a car.

I should add that I wasn’t asking for jack shit on a silver platter. What I wanted was the use of their cars so I could find a decent summer job. For example, when I was 16 I had a standing offer to build custom computers at a place in the next town at $10 an hour–a king’s ransom for a high-schooler at the time. But I needed a loan to buy my own wheels, and I needed my folks to put the car in their name so that I could ride on their insurance plan and not pay the absurd insurance rates that are charged to a 16 year-old kid when he tries to insure himself.

I got none of that, and yes, I probably deserved exactly what I got. So I walked to my $3.35 an hour job and worked 39 1/2 hours a week (so that I wouldn’t get benefits), and used a fair amount of that princely $110 a week after taxes to bribe rides and put gas in my friends’ cars.

(I should add that I did finangle a set of wheels every now and then. My Volkswagen Beetle was killed by an Oldsmobile, and my parents profited from the insurance money and didn’t give me another loan to replace the car. I got a free Rabbit from my mother and managed to wreck that myself. Once I bought a pristine 1972 Ford station wagon for one dollar. I still couldn’t afford to insure it, and I had to give it back to the people who scored it for me from an old man whose dying wish was that some kid might get some enjoyment out of the car he had maintained since it was new–that thing was awesome, and it broke my heart when I had to give it back, undriven.)

And, as Jon is about to find out, I also wrote my parents out of my life. I went to college ten miles away from where my father and my stepmother lived; I visited them exactly never until I hit upon the idea that must strike fear in the heart of every parent. I suddenly realized that while I couldn’t afford a car, I sure as hell could afford a motorcycle and an only-wrecked-once helmet.

When I told my old man my plan, the scales dropped from his eyes. He (I assume) told my stepmother to shut the fuck up, feigned back problems, and gave me his pride and joy Toyota Supra, and together we figured out how to insure it. A couple of years ago he told me, “I remembered the days when I had to hitchhike to college, couldn’t take a girl on a date, couldn’t leave that little college town, and I said to myself, ‘my boy doesn’t need to take that bullshit.’”

And while I now view that act as a priceless gift of love–and possibly an act of atonement–I still couldn’t keep far enough away from those folks until I built my own life, with my own money, with absolutely nothing that those folks could take away from me. It took a long time.

And yes, I very much was an entitled little asshole, and I was probably very wrong to feel the way I did. My point, JonScribe, is that the lesson you’re about to teach your kid is most definitely not the lesson you think you’re teaching him. And you’re going to learn that lesson the hard way unless you understand the problem from the kid’s perspective.

Such is the price of freedom. But freedom only costs about two thousand dollars these days. Don’t you think you and your boy can work something out, JonScribe? And if you can’t, can’t you at least cast the problem in those terms, instead of, “you fucked up, and now you’re going to suffer for it”?

JonScribe, I didn’t see your post on preview. Your stance seems entirely reasonable.

Keep that kid in your life, man. It’s the most important thing you can do.

I don’t get it Sofa King, I really don’t.

Why are you trying to give JohnScribe a guilt trip for not handing his kid a new car? Don’t deny it, that’s exactly what you’re doing. Trying to plant the seed that his kids never going to talk to him again because daddy didn’t buy him a new car? Are you shitting me?

And you had cars. You wrecked them. Then tried to put the blame on your parents for not buying you another one. Where the hell do you get off?

And I may be completely tripping here, but 110 bucks a week and you couldn’t afford insurance? On a beater? Something sounds a little fishy there.

You obviously have issues with your parents. That’s fine. A lot of people do. But don’t try to project your shit onto other people’s situations.

Jon, don’t let Sofa guilt trip you. Making your kid actually work for his ride isn’t a crime. It’s called being a good parent.

And I just saw your last post, Sofa.

Jon is going above and beyond. If you ask me, I think he’s going a little soft on the kid. He doesn’t owe him shit.

I’m sure he’ll rest a little easier though knowing that he has your approval.

:rolleyes:

Keep that kid in your life, man. It’s the most important thing you can do.

Something has gone terribly wrong when a kid has to be bribed with a car in order to keep them from being a shit.

I’m not saying you were a shit, Sofa, or that Jon’s kid is. But there are lots of parents out there who are doing just that: giving their kids whatever they want to pacify the little monsters they’ve raised.

I’d LOVE to see my daughter give me an ultimatum over a car :slight_smile:

If you ask me, I think he’s going a little soft on the kid.

I agree.

Jon, is he gonna do the landscaping and THEN get the new car, or are you gonna give him the car and then make him work it off?

I’m thinking if you give him the car first you’re never gonna get those shrubs planted …

You’re right, lezlers. Jon doesn’t owe is boy shit.

What he’s doing is investing in his future. Not the kid’s future–JonScribe’s future. It can be a bright future, or it can be otherwise.

You pay a kid in dirt, and he’s gonna return it in manure. Adolescents are not rational, and if you stick 'em hard enough, they’ll stay that way.

A kid in high school has about 1,500 days to learn how to be a man. That kid is gonna bust his ass at a job, while going to school, learning who he is, and experiencing virtually every single thing an adult experiences for the very first time. The kid is a horse, and the sad fact of the matter is that if he’s an American kid, he likely needs a goddamned cart.

Where would you place the cart, lezlers?

Well there we are. Snoopyfan and lezlers, would you like to tell your own car ownership stories, since I’m so obviously a monster-pacifier?

Cry me a fucking river, Sofa.

Are you forgetting the fact that I and many others in this thread earned our own cars and are somehow not bitter immature brats who don’t speak to our parent’s now?

Investing in his future. Please. Let me bust out the tinest fucking violin in the goddamn world, for you.

You’ve got a thing for implied threats, don’t you? I wouldn’t have given you shit if you were my kid, either. Especially if you pulled any of that condesending, smug, implied threat bullshit.

Grow the ever loving fuck up.

Yeah. Easy. I worked and earned enough money for my car, gas and insurance.

It’s not as uncommon of a thing as you’d like to believe.

Did your parents also whip you when you asked for more gruel?

:rolleyes:

Do you think JonScribe’s kid has grown the ever loving fucking up?

Wow. Thanks so much for addressing my other comments.

Maybe he will if his parents teach him some personal responsibility, a quality you seem to lack.

Your username is deliciously ironic.

Look, dammit, lezlers, I earned my own goddamned cars too, but I was smart enough to score them where I could find them with what I had, which was nothing. What I didn’t get is the support that some people weren’t so fortunate to have, which was a familial network which allowed me to actually drive them. I wrecked one car all on my own and didn’t drive again for three years.

This is not a matter of survival, or subsistence, or anything else so crucial, so I suppose it’s easy for you to wave away my message, but the fact of the matter is you ain’t never been on the other side of the ball and judging by the OP, but not JonScribe’s later comments, I thought that my personal perspective could be of some use.

Or maybe you have been on the other side of the ball. What did you miss in high school because you were so busy working and winning the adulation of your parents?

And I stand by my original statement, which is that if you punish a kid so hard that he can never redeem himself, he will quickly learn that he is irredeemable, with consequences which will affect the family far more than it will the subject of the punishment.

Tell me you saw that shit go down another way and I’ll give you an inch of credit, but so far all I’m getting out of you is some sort of “I magically negotiated the path without accident, therefore your advice is bullshit” message. Well, accept your crown now, bitch, cause most of the folks I grew up with would likely admire you in a perverse sort of way.

What the HELL are you rambling about now?

What other side of the ball? What ball? I didn’t miss shit in high school, I went to prom, homecoming, hung out with my friends, went to football games, the typical high school experience. You can do all that and have an afterschool job, too. Most everyone I knew did.

A familial network that allowed you to drive them? Can you speak english please? What the hell are you talking about? Are you whining again because your parents didn’t pay for your insurance? When you were pulling in 110 a week?

And how is Jon punishing the kid so hard he can’t redeem himself? By not buying him a car? How far up your ass did you have to reach for that one?

Christ, what PLANET are you from?

I’m not from Napa, that’s for sure.

I’m with Lezlers here. This is some seriously goofy shit you’ve thought up, Sofa King, and you seem intent on correlating it with the OP…when in fact the two have very little in common.

Jon’s kid fucked up the car.

Jon will make him work for another one, vs. just handing over the keys to the other car. Seems pretty damn reasonable!

You seem to have lost sight of this in your walk down Hard Knocks Memory Lane.

And FTR, plenty of people work for their first cars, myself included. I paid a thousand dollars for it, in four monthly installments, when I was 17. I was a hostess at the time, and my checks were a measly $200 every other week. It was a pile of shit, but it lasted me halfway through college. What is this “familial network” BS? What are you smoking on that sofa?

Geez. Get a grip.

Oh, and just because I’m morbidly curious…what the hell does living in Napa have to do with anything?

Yeah, Sofa. I think you’re getting way to close to the problem and not responding rationally.

Like I said, man. I didn’t even get my license until I was 20 and it didn’t keep me down. Not having a car shouldn’t be a make-or-break for a kid. I think you took it far to personally when it happened and you’re still filled with resentment over it.