Where in the Bill of Rights does it say you're entitled to a car?

The BBQ Pit
61

You cannot use their* cars without costing them additional insurance, and maintenance, and inconvenience.

You do not have to have a car to get honest work for decent pay.

Ride a bike. Take the bus. Walk. Ask a friend.

You’re parents do not now and never did owe you a ride. They don’t even owe you soccer. (gasp)

My teenager managed to get a job and work all summer (and still make it to all his swimming practices and meets) without a car. He rode his bike or asked a friend. Usually we couldn’t give him a ride because we were working too, but if we were around and he asked we’d give him a lift.

Driving is a privilege, not a right. If your are mature enough to drive then you are mature enough to figure out a way to earn the money to finance the cost of learning (if there is an associated cost where you live), finance your own car and the associated insurance and maintenance expenses and responsibilities. If you cannot find and maintain a job that provides you with the finances to support a car and it’s attendant expenses and responsibilities you are not mature enough for car ownership.

Want it that bad? Quit blaming your parents, quit getting in trouble (and blaming them for it), grow up and get to work earning what you want.

62

Thank you guys, for providing “voices” of reason. I was beginning to go a little crazy talking to Sofa King by myself.

For the record, Sofa, I didn’t grow up in Napa, although I have no clue what bearing that has on the discussion at hand anyway.

Teenagers working to pay for cars and the expenses associated with them is hardly a novel concept. I really have no idea why you’re having such a hard time grasping it.

63

My car story? Didn’t have one till I got married.

Didn’t have my license till I was 2 months from age 21. Had my license 3 months before I got married and left home. Drove my mom’s car until then because it didn’t increase the insurance to put me on since I was old by then.

My mom drove me and my date to the Junior prom. Every weekend in high school I was at home unless I was at a church function, while my friends were out cruising. When I had an after school job, mom took me and picked me up. Yeah, it did suck at the time having to bum rides, but I wasn’t out there getting pregnant, snorting coke or getting drunk, either – nor was I in a car with people who were doing those things (my friends included), or driving late at night on the same streets as people who had been doing those things.

You can be an American teenager and live without a car. Judging from the number of kids I’ve seen buried who wrapped their car around a tree, I’d say you can live better without one.

64

Humm, another anecdote.

I’ve been helping out my dad / assisting him in work for about 3 years now, since I was 11. No payments now, the reward? A car when I’m 16! Yay!

Sofa King, man, you gotta tell me where you got that shit, how much did it take to get that high?

65

Okay, maybe the problem here is one of basic outlook. JonScribe is the parent. It’s his duty to see that high-schooler to full adulthood. It’s not easy being a high-schooler; it’s also potentially the best time of a person’s life.

Parents don’t owe their kids shit? You fucking idiots. You owe them everything! You created them! Your job, as parents, is to give those kids the tools they need to survive as adults, and one of the finest learning tools for a high-schooler is learning how to care for and maintain a car. If you can afford to get your kid on the road, you by fucking God have an obligation to do it, because your job is to broaden that child’s options as much as possible. You are supposed to provide guidance, not barriers. Kids quickly realize which barriers are real, and which are artifice, and they will hold you accountable for artifice. Lead the children, you fools! Don’t block them.

That was my problem with JonScribe’s original post. The kid fucked up. I thought he was saying that since the kid fucked up, he wasn’t going to replace the guy’s car. That’s fucking stupid, and JonScribe obviously is much smarter than that, as his later comments revealed. The kid is going to pay for his mistake in spades, but there is no reason in the world why that payment should be more arduous than it has to be.

If you advocate the idea of making that kid walk in order to teach him some sort of lesson, you are guilty of the most dire mistake a parent can make: thinking that punishment somehow teaches discipline, rather than merely enforcing discipline. The kid will still learn; but he will learn that he can’t depend upon his parents to support him in a most fragile and formative time of his life. That is a pretty shitty lesson to teach, if you ask me.

66

This thread is making me feel very grateful that my father gave my sister and I a car for Christmas when we were sixteen. It wasn’t something he had to do, and my sister and I certainly weren’t special enough to deserve one, but there it was, waiting for us that morning. A 1989 Hyundia Excel. We called it the Rodney King car because that’s the make and model Rodney King drove that fateful night. We had that car for four years, and then I wrecked it to pieces. And then Daddy came 'round with another.

nostalgia and gratitude

I think you’re right to feel pissed, Jon, but understand that clueless selfishness is a stage many teenagers go through. Losing wheels may seem like the end of your stepson’s world. I think you should take him down a notch but help him get a car. Go over all the options with him and come up with some kind of arrangement that works for the both of you.

67

That is the biggest load of bullshit I’ve ever read in my life.

In an earlier post, you claimed you didn’t expect anything to be handed to you on a silver platter. In your previous post, however, you advocated exactly that. For parents to give their children cars. That they’re obligated to give their children cars.

That’s ridiculous. You sir, are a moron.

Somehow I don’t think your parents are crying themselves to sleep every night over their ungrateful brat of a son deeming not to grace them with his glorious presence.

68

What lezlers said.

I pray to God I don’t raise an ungrateful, self-entitled twerp like Sofa King!

69

Sofa King damn I wish my parents had your attitude when I was a teenager. Let’s see everything?
How about a new XKE Jaguar? (I was a teenager in the late 60’s) And Insurance of course.
How about a new house when I go to move out? It doesn’t matter that my parents can’t afford these things they owe them to me.

When I started driving my parents gave me the use of an 8 year old work pickup with about 250,000 miles. Getting it started was always a challenge. (more than once I had to walk home when it would not start) I pulled the engine and rebuilt it myself at the gas station that I worked at. I paid to have the seat redone so I wouldn’t fall on the floor. I kept that truck for another 10n years.

Anyway now I have children of my own. When my son was about 8 he rode his bike to the local bowling alley to play video games. Despite my very explicit instructions to lock his bike, he did not. You guessed it, it got stolen. I did not buy him a new bike. I did not yell at him (much). Instead I told him that he was going to earn the money to replace it. We went shopping to several bike shops and he found the bike he wanted. We put it on lay-away and every weekend I gave him the chance to earn $5-10 bucks by working around the house.
When he paid off the new bike, he rode the wheels off it. Never left it unlocked either. :slight_smile:

My kids went to school in a very well to do neighborhood. Most of the parents of my children’s friends could buy me without breaking a sweat. Funny thing is, our house is where all the kids (including the rich ones) wanted to hang out. This is not because of all the material things I gave my kids. Suggesting that love is dependent on material things is just wrong.

We don’t owe our kids material things. We owe our kids preparation for life. If we fail at this, we have failed as parents. Once I am gone, it is a sure bet that nobody is going to give either of my kids a car. Or give them another one if they total or blow the engine on their car. If I were to raise my children to think that life owes them cars, houses, and jobs I would be failing them. By making his step son earn the replacement car Jon is preparing him for real life. His step-son might not like the lesson, but it is a necessary lesson.

Sofa King go back and read the Declaration of Independence

You will note that it does not guarantee happiness, just says that you can pursue it.

70

Bravo, Rick, bravo.

71

I don’t know that I’ve swayed much from my OP, Sofa. We really can’t afford to buy another car. And I still maintain he could do without one and still develop into a well-adjusted adult who will visit his parents when they’re playing Yahtzee in the old-folks’ home.

But here’s the scenario that’s developed: We have friends who have an old Olds that needs a new transmission. They’d just as soon get rid of it as its just sitting in their yard, collecting stray cats. So, in exchange for my stepson helping them with some work, we’ll take the Olds and I’ll pay for a rebuilt transmission, for which my stepson will be doing some longterm work for me, above and beyond his normal chores.

Our decision to replace the car has nothing to do with whether we believe he needs it for his happiness. Were this option not available to us, I can’t say that we’d be replacing the car this soon. I continue to maintain that he is not owed a car, does not need a car and could get by without.

He gets everything else a child needs, as I mentioned before: Food, clothing, shelter, love, support, guidance and when necessary a figurative kick in the ass, just as I did when I was a kid.

We’re getting the car more for his mother’s and my convenience than using it to buy his love and devotion to us. If I thought he’d like me better because I bought him a car, I can do without that kind of admiration.

72

You will get no beef from me on how you are handling this.

73

Your lad is getting exactly what he needs and deserves, JonScribe. I’ve got no beef, either.

And the rest of you? You don’t understand me. You’ll never understand me. I’m running away!

74

Wait, Sofa/, come back.

Damn. And I was going to give him the Toyota.

75

Sofa, are you whooshing us here??

My jaw dropped when I read this. You’re advocating rewarding a child for bad behaviour by giving him what he already destroyed?

This kid HAD HIS CHANCE!!! Where is it written that a parent has to bend over and take it up the patootie to fix the kid’s screw up?

Does this happen in real life? “Oh, gosh sorry boss, I LOST the $500,000 deposit on the way to the bank, could I get some more money”??? Yeah, riiiiigggghhhhhhht.

Not to sound like every quintessential dad/mom (I’m the mom version) on the planet, but Money Does NOT Grow On Trees!!! Did it ever occur to you that perhaps your parents couldn’t afford another vehicle for you? Just because they got paid by the insurance company doesn’t mean it was enough to finance another vehicle. Most insurance companies only pay what the “blue book” value is, and if money was still owed on the vehicle, that might not have even been enough to pay that off. OR, if it was, it just barely paid the balance due and didn’t leave enough for the purchase of a new vehicle.

Not to mention the increased insurance rates thanks to your wreck. I’m sure I don’t have to tell you about the REGULAR insurance rates foisted upon men under the age of 25, let alone ones that have had any sort of accidents or tickets.

Bottom line, you don’t reward someone for screwing up. Sounds like you missed the lesson. Let’s see here…Your parent’s and the parent in the OP got a car for their child. Child completely destroys car through his/her own misuse.

Are you suggesting that the parent then “there, there” the kid and rush right out to get a new(new to him/her) one??

You think that “the most instuctive tool” a parent has is to let the child drive and have their own car? And you think that not replacing something they destroyed is “taking away their independence”?

As sucky a lesson as it is, NO ONE ever learns independence by being coddled and having their mistakes fixed for them. Independence is learned by DOING and fixing one’s OWN mistakes.

76

You’ve GOT to be kidding. You admitted that your parents had good reason to not allow you a vehicle, you admitted that even while being kept close to home you STILL got into trouble, and that you DESERVED to be punished for that, but you’re all bitter and blaming your parents.

And FURTHER, trying to find parallels between your situation and the OP’s.

After reading your posts here, and based on them (though I don’t of course know your whole story) it’s apparent that their was a WHOLE lot more going on in your teenhood than not getting to have a vehicle.

There’s an old saying, and a very true one. “Anything worth having, is worth working for”. And teaching a child that by making them earn their car, insurance and so on is NOT “paying them in dirt”.

I’m where I am today because my dad and mom cared enough to teach me how to be responsible and earn my way in life.

77

If this is what your parents did to you, then that is a FAR cry from merely teaching a child a lesson about responsibility and earning his/her privileges.

If your parents “punished you so hard that you could never redeem yourself” then that’s an issue OTHER than what the OP is discussing.

78

Tell us…the car is just the tip of the iceberg isn’t it. There are obvous other issues going on…stepdad/stepson issues.

79

Looks like Sofa has an unpopular viewpoint.

I to am a step dad. However, I had an opposite problem…and I’m sure Sofa would have loved to have me as his/her dad :wink:

My stepson and I were different in almost every way. When he turned 16 he didn’t even take drivers ed or try for his license. Reason? He didn’t want the responsibility of a car?

Noble you say? Naw, the kid just didn’t want to work for it. He was extremely introverted, was doing bad in school and, I firmly believed, extremely depressed.

I had a long talk with him one night and remember it well. Surprisingly, he brought it up the other day (and this was years ago when it happened). I told him that I firmly believed that he, and most 16 year old boys, NEEDED a car. A car is freedom, promotes independence, is uplifting to the spirit. It allows him to go where he wants and experience new things. It allows him to bond with friends.

I had arguments with my wife (his mother) who wanted him to work for it and to improve his grades or not get it. I said I would pay for the car, set up payments so he would pay me half of the cost back and also pay for half his insurance.

He wouldn’t go for it - laziness, depression and inertia holding him back. I couldn’t force it on him.

He went to live with his dad shortly after and a year later (near 18) he was the same if not worse. However, he came to me to take the deal. I had to fight BOTH parents on it. I had a 2 hour conversation with his dad and managed to convince him that his son really wasn’t doing well emotionally and needed the car. Once his dad caved, my wife reluctantly went along.

It is now 2 years later and my step son has changed. He seems much happier, dates frequently, has friends and a good job for his age and education. He loves his car! He has more to go but the change is HUGE.

There is more to it than the car but I firmly believe that his getting a car was a major factor in his turnaround.

Sometimes depriving a child to make sure he isn’t spoiled is not the best thing. I still believe most, if not nearly all, of 16 year old boys would benefit from a car.

Unpopular viewpoint I’m sure but I still feel it is true.

{Also, do not assume they know anything about cars - you have to keep asking him if he’s done this and that. Look at the tires etc.}

80

** I still believe most, if not nearly all, of 16 year old boys would benefit from a car.**

Just out of curiosity, would you feel the same way if you had a daughter and not a son?

I’m assuming that you said “boys” here because the kid in question from the OP is a boy.

I’m asking because growing up I found a lot of inequality in the way families I knew treated their sons and daughters.

The sons got cars earlier, had later curfews (if they had one at all) and fewer questions asked about their activities.

Most girls I knew had the book thrown at them.