Guys, I think Sofa King has already gone off running, crying like the whiny little self entitled bitch he is.
Did you see his last post?
“You’ll never understand me!”
Oy.
:rolleyes:
andymurph64,
While I admire the fact that you’re not trying to push your viewpoint via thinly veiled threats of a damaged relationship with your stepson, unlike Sofa King, I don’t think your story applies here.
Obviously there was more going on with your stepson. I find it rather hard to believe that a car is what turned everything around, if he was truly depressed.
You also mentioned that he didn’t want to work for it, that his lack of desire for a car arose out of laziness. So, essentially, you rewarded his laziness. And he magically got better. This isn’t an attack, but merely a legitimate question: do you think that your stepson could have possibly majorly played you?
Think about it.
Your stepson may just be a very intelligent kid that figured out how to manipulate his parents into giving him a car he didn’t have to work for.
He didn’t “want” to drive because he didn’t want to work for it. He admitted as much. He proceeded to act depressed, claiming that the depression was what was holding him back.
Knowing that you believed a car would cure all of his problems (you said you “firmly” stated that every 16 year old boy needs a car) he refused to do what your wife and his father asked for him to get it. He knew you were pushing to buy it for him. He knew that you believed a car would cure all of his troubles.
He moves in with his dad and continues to act depressed, knowing that you’re pushing to buy the miracle car. The car he doesn’t have to work for.
You finally win and bam, he gets his car. Without working for it. Magically, the depression is gone.
:dubious:
Your stepson is pretty damned smart.
- it’s not possible to ‘act’ depressed for years on end. If the kid was depressed, the kid was depressed. /shrug
I know I went through massive depression in my final year of high school (actually had a nervous breakdown) but within 12 months I was heaps better, and 2 years later you wouldn’t have known I’d been that low - I was out of the environment that was causing the stress, had reassessed my life goals, and was back on track. So don’t get down on the kid because he’s improved, hey? 
It’s a good thing.
- Yes, my parents did the boy child/girl child thing. My younger brother got given his car, and driving lessons. I had to buy my own car and pay for my own lessons. The favouritism kind of rankled at the time (though not as much as you’d think, because I was still suffering through depression and didn’t think I was worth anything more than that, at the time… I felt no entitlement to equal treatment.)
BUT, on the other hand, fast-forwarding 10 years down the track my brother still really loves the car they gave him and has totally done it up. Even though he has bought a newer car to drive around in, the old Kingswood is his pride and joy. He’s replaced most of its bits from the ground up, had the paint work totally redone… he’s invested more money of his own into that car than I did in buying my crap-mobile.
So I’d say they did the right thing, actually. I’m not the kind of person who sees a car as anything other than a vehicle to get from A to B.
Not only that, but I am the kind of person who believes that if something is given to me, I don’t have the right to sell it later… so whereas I had no feeling of obligation over my self-funded old Mazda Crapfest, I’d have feel massive obligation over any car my folks gave me. Upgrade the car by using the old one as a trade-in? No chance. Get a ding in the car my folks bought? Heavens forbid!
So essentially, it worked out better for me that way anyway.
I guess the right decision comes down purely to what kind of personality your kids have.
Lezlers,
What you wrote is perfectly plausible but I highly doubt this was the case here. I came late into his childhood. The kid had a tough childhood, well at least tougher than most I think. Did he ‘use’ me…probably in order to convince his parents. However, it was not a bad thing for him to do. He needed help.
This example gets away from the OP though. I still stand that most or nearly all 16 year olds (especially boys 
) need a car. To deprive them of the car will hurt them more than help them emotionally. A car is HUGE to them.
I say this knowing full well I could be wrong. I have no evidence but personal experience and observation. I have noticed that guys that age that have cars seem much more mentally healthy and ‘into the world’. Guys that age without cars seem more troubled. I could be wrong. I could be confusing cause and effect. However, when I actually had an opportunity to act in a situation I went with my beliefs and it seemed to help.
I know it is an unpopular/hard to defend viewpoint but I still stand by it.
Snoopy, I was going to say ‘I meant no gender bias’ and all that jazz but then I stopped. Since I was a 16 year old boy myself I guess I tend to empathize with them. The question is…would I have felt the same if my step son had been a step daughter?
Hmmmmmm…
After some thought, I believe I would have.
I understand your frustration with daughters getting the short end of the stick. Despite being in a more ‘enlightened society’ in the 21st century, the issue with daughters is they can get pregnant. Your probably getting pissed now…but many people I know are dealing with this situation.
Reality is that the boy and his family pretty much get off the hook financially and with time. They MIGHT contribute a few measly dollars and, when the boy turns 18 it stops. The boy-now-18 can’t afford diddly. The burden falls on the parents of the daughter.
Well it might not be fair, I can understand why daughters are treated more strictly than boys.
{I know, you hate me now…}
Despite being in a more ‘enlightened society’ in the 21st century, the issue with daughters is they can get pregnant.
You’re absolutely right, and it is a valid concern.
I’m an only child so it doesn’t matter anyway … but how come parents don’t take into consideration that their sons are capable of GETTING someone pregnant and act accordingly and be just as strict on their sons as they are their daughters?
I just have to say this is the most screwed up metaphor I’ve seen in a good long while. So the kid is a horse, and a car is his cart? But horses don’t need carts, a cart needs a horse to pull it. And a horse doesn’t drive the cart, it pulls the cart. The horse is perfectly capable of going the same distance in the same time without the cart, actually probably less time and more distance because he’s not lugging around that big ol’ cart! And you put the cart behind the horse, which would seem to imply that the horse is more important, which it is! So unless the kid is planning on harnessing himself to his car and dragging it around, this comparison doesn’t make any sense at all.
I’m kind of split on the issue. I didn’t get my driver’s license until about a year ago, when I was 19 and almost startign my junior year of college, but my dad bought me my car ('94 Pontiac Sunbird) and pays my insurance (He refused to let me pay, since he still pays my sister’s insurance and she’s been driving for about 6 year). I wanted to buy my own car, but he insisted, and I couldn’t have afforded the car he bought me (about $3000), so I conceded.
Snoopyfan,
Yes, it is unfair but from what I’ve seen…parents of a boy that gets a girl pregnant tend to have much less liability then parents of the girl. The boy’s parents MAY pay a small amount to support the girl but it is usually far less than half of expenses (FAR LESS) and when the boy turns 18 their legal obligation ends completely (as it should IMO). An 18 year old boy would have difficulty supporting himself let alone child support.
This leaves the parents of the girl in a tough spot. They have to take care of her legally till 18 and that means the child also. When she turns 18, what are they going to do–kick her out? If an 18 year old guy has problems making it financially what chance does a 18 year old single mother?
Nope, the financial and time/energy implications of letting your son off the leash is far less than letting your daughter. Therefore parents of daughters will tend to keep tighter rein over them. Sucks I’m sure.
That is just looking at the economics, not even considering the huge impacts into the daughters quality of life/future career etc.
A rough estimate I’ve seen over my life has to be over 50 parents of pregnant daughters and it is the same over and over again. Only once I have seen the boy try hard to help - over the objections of his parents (who wanted him to have a life and career over working to support his kid)
The thing is, not buying a car for the kid isn’t the same thing as depriving them of a car. Depriving them of a car would be not allowing them to purchase a car, even with their own money.
I would have issues with that, too.
No one is depriving the kid in the OP, nor was your wife and her X husband depriving your stepson of a car. They just didn’t want to hand it to him.
Monumental difference.
The thing is, not buying a car for the kid isn’t the same thing as depriving them of a car. Depriving them of a car would be not allowing them to purchase a car, even with their own money.
Um, that’s a bad thing?
Just because the kid has the money to buy it, they should be allowed to? I don’t THINK so.
If I had a daughter who wanted to dress like a hooker, as is apparently the fashion these days, I should let her leave my house wearing Britney Spears shorts just because she bought them with her own money?
If I had a son who decided he was going, hell or high water, to Spring Break in Florida (with friends, unsupervised) when he was a senior in high school, I should automatically let him go just because he worked and saved up the money for it?
If I wouldn’t do those things, why would I let my kid buy a large machine that they could kill themselves with?
Now, if they were 18, that’d be one thing (provided they had moved out or were going to college). But just because a 15/16 year old saves up money doesn’t mean they should automatically be allowed to buy a car with it.
I’m not saying that NO teenager should drive. But parents, you know your kids. You know if your kid follows the crowd and is likely to bow to peer pressure and start getting drunk and doing God knows what else. OTOH, some teenagers ARE good kids, have good heads on their shoulders and aren’t going to go out and get into dangerous situations and are actually good drivers. It happens.
If you have a kid described by the former, money or no, legal age or no, it is downright friggin STUPID to let your child have access to a vehicle and you are begging for heartache! Sad thing is many parents today leave their balls in the hospital lobby when they bring their new baby home from the hospital and they won’t stand up to their own kids! What’s up with that?!
(Note: “you” being you understood, not you personally.)
We’ll have to agree to disagree there, Snoopyfan. I don’t personally think it’s very fair to deny your child a car that they earned the money to buy, just because you don’t want them driving. Cutting the apron strings and all that.
I think that’s a pretty sure fire way to breed resentment. Putting conditions on something, such as earning your own car, and denying something outright are two different ballparks entirely.
And I can’t get behind you with this one.
But like you said, you know your kid.
I don’t personally think it’s very fair to deny your child a car that they earned the money to buy, just because you don’t want them driving. Cutting the apron strings and all that.
Fair enough, we’ll agree to disagree.
What about the slutty clothing and Spring Break trip scenarios I mentioned above? Would you be cool with your kid doing that if they earned their own money?
Where is the line drawn? If it’s legal for a kid to buy it and they earned their own money, anything is fair game?
Well, if they’re in college, the Spring Break scenerio thing I would have a problem with. Not allowing them to go, I mean. After all, they’re in college. Strings, cut.
I just don’t think the spring break and slutty clothes examples are comparable.
A car is something most teenagers that can afford them (or have parents that can afford them) have. It’s considered a “normal” part of being a teenager. Dressing slutty isn’t. (I’m speaking in general terms here).
Going on crazy spring break trips to Florida isn’t considered a normal teenager behavior, either. College? Yeah, maybe. High School? Not so much.
So I don’t really see the relevance to your question.
I meant high school spring break, and yeah, it happens. Especially with boys.
And I know far, far more girls who go to school dressed like hookers than I do girls that own a car.
Have you SEEN clothing for girls lately? I know teenage girls who buy the revealing clothes because they have no other fashionable options, but then buy stuff to go OVER it.
Okay, still not seeing your point and what it has to do with driving.
You’re kinda going off on a little tangent.
How is dressing like a hooker at all comprable to driving a car? The government doesn’t tell you it’s okay to dress like a hooker once you reach a certain age.
It does tell you you can drive once you reach a certain age. Hell, driving when you’re a teenager is such a norm that most teenagers 16th birthdays are centered around it!
I don’t know any birthdays that are centered around dressing like a hooker.
You’re going to have to come up with a much stronger analogy than that, I’m afraid.
Lezlers what I am trying to say is that just because a kid has earned his or her own money to buy something doesn’t mean they should be permitted to buy it. Just as I wouldn’t let my kid use money she earned to buy slutty clothes, or to go off unsupervised for Spring Break (as a high schooler), having their own money doesn’t automatically mean a parent should let their kid buy a car.
I don’t know how to make my point any plainer than that.
Where I grew up, nobody had cars in high school. Nobody could afford them. I mean, you might know one or two people that had them in senior year, but for the most part people walked, rode the bus, scammed rides, borrowed their parent’s cars (oftentime our parents didn’t have cars either) or whatever to get where they needed to go.
We still managed to have plenty of fun, go on dates, get to school every day and participate in after school activities. Monthly bus passes are usually half off for students. They’ve served me well for 22 carless years. Damned if I am going to double my living expenses just to pay for gas and insurance.
You want to hear something else? The kids that had after school jobs in my town didn’t buy cars either- they used their money to help their family eat and pay rent. And in my opinions kids should not work during the school year if it affects their grades in even the tiniest bit.
Your kid has no idea how good he has it. I found out today that the average teenager spends $100.00 a week! I don’t spend $100.00 a week after rent and I have to pay for all my expenses. These kids are going to experience some hard times when they graduate from college and realize what life is like on an entry-level salary. Oh wait- they’ll just use their credit card and rack up the tons of debt that seems to now be an accepted right of early-adulthood passage.
Thanks, Snoopy, I get your point now. I don’t agree with it in the least, but I understand the point you’re trying to make.
Just out of curiousity: do you let your kids drive at all? Are they allowed to get their license? Can they borrow your car?
My kid isn’t old enough to drive
IF my child were old enough to drive right now, no, she wouldn’t be getting her license. We couldn’t afford the insurance and she would need to be concentrating on school rather than an after school job. I would encourage her to get her permit, though, and I would let her drive places if I or her father are in the car with her.
Can I ask where you heard this, because it doesn’t seem possible to me- unless a lot of expenses are being included in that $100/week.
I’m curious now- which part of of Snoopy’s point did you disagree with? I can’t imagine that you believe a parent should allow a teenager to drive and buy a car just because he has his own money * even if* the parent knows the child is irresponsible, immature and has poor judgment. And that seems to me to be what Snoopy is saying- that the teenager’s ability to afford the car shouldn’t be the sole determining factor.
So kids who don’t have cars are stranded at home with no way out? Parents who don’t buy their kids cars are cursing them with lifelong resentment?
Granted, I graduated high school way back in 1984–but it wasn’t exactly the horse and buggy days. I didn’t get a car until my final semester of high school, but I still managed to go to sporting events, dances, my job, my friends’ houses. We got rides from those who had cars, took the bus, walked, biked, whatever. We weren’t striken housebound just because we didn’t have cars.
Gee, my parents have never bought me a car so I had to drive a real mountain of rust I bought myself–yet somehow I still love them!
And, for the record, that car really was a wreck.
I bought it for $500 in 1984. This was back in the days before inspections–no way it would pass now. It was a '78 Chevette. It had giant rust holes in the floor boards (I tried to cover them with cookie sheets–till they fell through), the seats were mended with duct tape, the ceiling fabric had to be glued up (and would always fall down again when it rained), it ate oil, the turn signal wouldn’t blink so I’d have to turn it on and off and on and off and on to get the blinking effect.
Wow. Until I read this thread I’d almost forgotten about that car. I do have fond memories of that horrible car. Some of my best stories are from the days of driving that pile of crap!