Damnable preview function.
:mad: :smack:
Finn Again:
I’m a troll? You label your opponents anti-Israel, in an echo of manhattan’s ever so charming habit of labelling his pro-terrorist, but that’s just fine. I just call you dense, which I certainly believe you are, on the evidence of what I see, but you skating ever so close to a line that would label me racist isn’t being a troll?
Strange place this is turning into.
I believe I would be correct in stating that in all the years I’ve been here, I’ve never even been warned by the mods once for anything. I could be wrong, but I’ve never seen it, and outside of subscription reminders, no mod has ever found cause to direct any electrons at my email.
That’s after seven years here last month.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make that person
a) a troll, or
b) anti-Israel, on this topic.
Of course you do know that. Or maybe you don’t. Given your demonstrated lack of reading skills, maturity, judgement, and character, I suppose there’s a chance.
Maybe I will call you pro-massacre. I’ll have to ponder that.
Nah, I suppose that would start a feud, and I really don’t think your worth the time or the energy for a feud, even if it just involves flying electrons. It’s not like you’re remotely intelligent enough to interest me.
So much for that.
I gotta say that calling **pantom **a troll is way out of line. I know we’re in the pit, but that doesn’t mean we have to throw all truth and reason out the window. I often diagree wtih pantom, but have never seen him exhibit trollish behavior.
Of course, if **Finn **has some examples of such behavior, perhaps he can quote them for us all to see.
Not quite fair, Finn. You demand that I provide examples of military tactics I would approve (presuambly for your debunking pleasure) on the self-serving grounds that if I can’t provide them, that necessarily means I demand Israel bend over and take it.
Its not a fair proof. You’re demanding tactical and logistical expertise from a hippy. Want to know how to whomp up a batch of killer brownies, I’m your guy. Armored divisions aren’t my thing. What, I gotta walk on water to prove I’m not a witch?
And this gem:
C’mon, Finn, play fair. You know as well as I that this is an tortured charicature of my position. “…let its citizens be murdered…”, gimme a fuckin’ break!
Yes.
Your delusions aren’t my responsibility, I’m afraid. I’ve never called you a racist nor do I have any desire to. But you’re free to feel persecuted all you like. Or just pretend that I have said a single thing to indicate that I think you’re a racist. Why stop trolling now?
Funny, I’ve never stated that disagreeing with me means either. But you know that, and you’re trolling.
I have stated that being against Israel in this situation is being against Israel in this situation. Crazy, I know.
Blah blah blah. You started this thread by farting and pretending you’d made a point, by posting something that’s verbal diarrhea even by Pit standards, and then continued on to trolling. Good show! Please, troll, continue to talk about my intelligence, character, whatever else you’d like to fart about.
The troll doesn’t like me, the troll doesn’t like me! Oh nooooooo!
I notice, too, that your denial of wanting to ‘start a fued’ is, likewise, a troll, as this is the second time you’ve done the exact same ‘pro-massacre’ song and dance. You think your bullshit use of aporia fools… who, exactly?
So why don’t you do a favor, and masturbate like a motherfuck somewhere else. Yes yes, you are so very smart and I pale in comparison to your magnificent intellect. Now go fuck yourself and stop trolling me.
Ciao ciao.
Well, I can confine myself to this thread and have plent of 'em.
How about his first post to this thread, where he deliberately ignores that Lebanon itself has said that Hezbollah is part of its ‘resistance’ against Israel, and where he pretends that Israel has no justification to deal with Lebanon as the Lebanese -army- didn’t attack. Lebanon itself says that Hezbollah is acting on its behalf in the war with Israel, but someone wants to pretend otherwise? And in the context of lobbing empty obnoxious insults at me? No, that’s trolling.
He then claims that it is ‘bullshit’ that Lebanon is in ‘cahoots’ with Hezbollah, even though Lebanon’s own President, Defense Minister, and official government statements have said as much. Again, someone who wants to pretend that the facts of the matter are ‘bullshit’ and Lebanon’s own admission is deliberately ignored in order to, again, sling empty insults? That’s trolling.
I can discuss other willful ignorance of the facts in order to fling inflamatory insults around, if you require.
I am just sick to death of trollish bullshit like this, and as long as I’m in the Pit, I’m sure as hell going to call it out.
No, not for my debunking pleasure. But yes, if you can’t provide any action that you would approve of, and claim that the current action is likewise something that you don’t approve of, then you have indeed said that there are no actions you can think of that you’d approve of. Which is the same thing as saying that there are no actions Israel could take that you’d approve of. Which is the same thing as saying the only action you’d approve of is Israel taking no action. Which is the same thing as saying that Israel just has to take it, as you wouldn’t approve of any actions.
Oh, I know how to make ghee all on my own. 
But no, I’m not asking for logistical anything. I’m asking you to give any course of action you’d be okay with. As saying that there’s no course of action means that the only possibility is that Israel has to sit there and take it.
I hardly think that’s an unreasonable request on my part.
Then what was your comment about ‘superhuman wisdom and restraint’ about? Any attack on Hezbollah, which makes its bases in civilian zones, will kill more civilians than terrorists. Thus, any attack on Hezbollah would be out of bounds according to your formulation, no? So, if Israel can take no action to stop their citizens from being murdered, how is that different from letting its citizens be murdered?
Of course, Israel could nuke Mecca.
It would certainly demonstrate that Israel will not tolerate the murder of its citizens.
Repurcussions? What of it, it will only inflame those nations who are already devoted to Israels destruction, who cares about world reaction when the world hates you already?
Whats that? “Restraint”, you say? Splendid. Now we’re getting somewhere.
Please clarify. Precisely what percentage of civilians to terrorists is acceptable? May we name this, in your honor, the Finn Ratio.
Yes, a restrained action. As in, doing damage to Lebanon, the country that started the war, without carpet bombing/invading the entire country/etc…
I’ve asked for another action that could be taken that would qualify in your book as restrained, but you say you can’t give one. Right?
I’m just a neo-hippy, I can’t do math! 
Ahem.
Of course, the ‘ratio’ varies by situation. Part of the problem is false analogies, so I’m not going to give you a single rule that covers all instances.
Or would you like to give a ratio of civilians to terrorists that is -unacceptable-? That is, unless it’s anything other than saying that any civilians killed makes it wrong?
But I noticed you’ve dodged my original question. If you believe that any attack which harms more civilians than terrorists is wrong (a correct statement of your beliefs, yes?), and you believe that any action which is wrong should not be undertaken (a correct statement of your beliefs, yes?) then by syllogism, you believe that any attack against terrorists which kills more civilians than terrorists should not be undertaken, right?
And, in this case, as Hezbollah makes their bases in civilian areas, and they can never be attacked without a greater civilian loss of life, then Hezbollah should never be attacked in order for Israel to defend itself, right?
Which mean that Israel should sit there and take it, yes?
If I’m wrong, please show me which step of the above reasoning you disagree with.
Yes, I think that’s very probably so. If for no other reason but that it generates more enmity than it neutralizes. That’s the tactical, cynical reason. The important one is that you just plain shouldn’t.
So it is accurate to say that as long as Israel cannot attack Hezbollah without killing more civilians than terrorists, and since it will never ever be able to do that, Israel should never attack Hezbollah. And so, in terms of defending itself, it should do nothing, right?
It can make requests for international aid and such, but in terms of boots-on-the-ground, bombs-hitting-terrorists, the answer is non-action. Yes?
That’s just been my point all along, and if we’ve gotten to that agreement, as I think we have (?), then there’s really not much to debate. You and I see the issue differently, and on matters of personal aesthetics such as morality, there’s little headway to be made once positions have been decided.
So if what I’ve said above about your position is accurate, we should agree to disagree, yes?
I really don’t feel like continuing this if that’s the case, as I’ve been trying to stay out of the Pit as of late anyways. I certainly have better things to do with my time than frequent threads with posters like pantom whose opening salvos consist solely of gradeschool taunts and deliberate lies.
You and I are done, for now, yes?
How could I argue with that?
I need one of those beers, damnit. Luckily I have a few apricot wheat beers in the fridge. And I am sorry if I got overly snippy with you due to the general tone of the thread. You are one of the more valuble Dopers and I generally enjoy your wit and sense of humor. Heck, I’d be happy to buy you a beer if you’re ever in my neck of the woods.
Got my faults. Its a long list, but “delicate” ain’t on it.
Freak freely.
A hilarious, if disturbing, parody of this whole damned war: International Convention Needed on Blowing Off Little Girls’ Faces
Yours in trollery,
pantom
PS: Finn Again, a minor point of reading comprehension: I’m not the OP.
Do you normally enjoy making yourself look like an idiot, or is this thread special?
Here’s a minor point of reading comp, I never said you were the OP.
Finn Again:
Man, you really are dumber’n a bag of hammers, aren’t you?
Also, second point of reading comprehension: I have repeatedly given an alternative course, ie, the one followed by the US in Afghanistan. I don’t recall that that involved sitting there and taking it. You manufacture strawmen by the dozen, you know?
Thirdly, and this is the last time I’m speaking to your infinitely stupid self, ever, the reason I’m annoyed with you is simple: you do the same thing Israel did on the night of the attack, disingenuously stating that the nation of Lebanon is attacking the nation of Israel. Anyone with even the most rudimentary understanding of the region and internal Lebanese politics knows how unbelievably stupid this is. The only reason Israel did it was to justify attacking the entire nation, including people who would easily have supported them in disarming Hizbullah otherwise.
Before, I would have thought you would know this. Now, I realize you really are too dense to comprehend anything other than black and white.
My apologies to everyone else for this little brouhaha. Carry on.
In prior post to pantom:
(bolding mine)
Try to slow down on the amyl nitrate intake while posting on this topic.
Fuckin’ out of control zealot.
Again, spunky, you might want to make yourself look like less of a total fool.
“You started this race by…”
“You started this semester by…”
“You started this job by…”
“You started this day by…”
“You started this thread by…”
Were you less of an obnoxious asshole, lying in order to start a fight, I would’ve chalked this up to a difference in writing styles. I might’ve even been willing to chalk this up to an honest misunderstanding, and assumed that instead of looking for reasons to pick a fight, that I might’ve been less than clear with my text and you honestly didn’t grok. But since you’re a fight-loving asshole, I’ll just chalk this up to the content of your character.
Nowhere did I say you made the OP. Merely characterized the behavior with which you started posting to this thread. But please, demonstrate your mindless belligerence some more. Or do you think that when someone says “you started this semester by not studying” that they’re saying the person was the first person out of all the students to attend classes that semester and didn’t study in class that day? :rolleyes:
I know you’re a real expert on reading comp, and on telling people how very-not-smart they are, but keep in mind that the phrase 'you started…" is more often than not, idiomatic. And contains the tacit phrases such as “You started (your participation in)…” “You started … (with behavior like)” “You started … (with the tone of)”
Your interpretation and pathetic attempt at a gotcha is based on hyper-literalism.
But hey, when you can’t lie in order to sling mindless inflammatory bullshit, attempt to nitpick grammar as if it proves that someone isn’t as smart as big ol’ brained you.
Good show!
I know you’re positively rabid with a desire to start a fight, starting (your participation in) this thread by lying in order to insult me, but stupid attempts at grammar gotchas? I know that you’re frothing at the mouth, going as far as to lie in order to make up your bullshit screed and starting (the current tone in) this thread by feeling the need to make stuff up in order to vomit forth empty insults. I know that you’re so desperate to cause some conflict that you started (your continuing attacks in) this thread by making shit up… but seriously, that should be beneath even your angry, angry little mind.
And, speaking about you being a mindless pugnacious angry little person, your fallacious analogy ignores the fact that, oh, I don’t know… Afghanistan isn’t Lebanon. But certainly anything that works in one country will work in a totally different country with totally different factors and totally different people. And anybody who noticed that nations aren’t fungible, why, they must just not be as smart as you. Their synapses must not be working. Mmmm hmmm.
You call me stupid and disingenuous, while lying in order to troll? Have you no honor, and no shame? Lebanon itself has said, as recently as a few months ago, that Hezbollah is acting on its behalf as a tool to attack Israel, and that they gave them weapons for that very purpose. And you still pretend that anybody who knows that fact is an ‘idiot’? This after you’ve been posting in -at least- one thread where I’ve alredy pointed out Lebanon’s own complicity in this matter? When I pointed out, in this very thread, that Lebanon has admitted to using Hezbollah as a proxy force? And still you pretend not to have seen that, in order to sling insults which you -know- to be based on nothing but your lies? Just how stupid are you?
But this goes beyond normal stupidity, as the only real “stupid” thing is thinking that you’re fooling people. No, you’re feigning stupidity in order to make disingenous personal attacks, lying in order to start a fight. And, luckily, I can call that out with our newest Pit rule.
Again, the Lebanese government, President, and Defense Minister all contradict you. I’ve already pointed this out. Your continued denial, coupled with your mindless pugnacious flame-baiting is, yep, trolling.
Either that, or you’re a goddamn liar who is deliberately lying in order to piss people off and sling your vacuous insults. Gee, I wish there was a word for that behavior. :rolleyes:
Now, I’m glad you won’t be posting to me anymore. Kindly go fuck yourself and troll someone else.
Buh bye.
So, how did you start the day?
What, you’re the single human being responsible for turning day into night? My, you’re powerful. :rolleyes:
On no! A living joke of a poster doesn’t like me. I shall cry now.
Minor point of reading comprehension, again: I only said I wasn’t going to address you anymore. Please reread.
I correct you so as to pre-empt any, um, misunderstandings if I post to this thread again.
Really, correcting you is a full-time job.