I have no problem with it. If you don’t want to go in, you don’t have to.
So, Dio, do you also oppose smoking bans imposed upon private businesses? After all:
I meant in the context of denying service, there’s (usually) nothing in the law that says a shopkeeper doesn’t have the right to deny service; i.e., being a cop isn’t a protected class.
Texas has passed a new law that prohibits businesses from limiting guns in their parking lots (even though they can refuse to allow the gun into the business).
This is aimed primarily at the employees, so the business owner cannot stop them from legal carry to and from work.
I’ve been wondering if a drive-up restaurant like Sonic can refuse to serve armed customers, in light of this new law? IANAL, but it seems like they could.
Those aren’t remotely the same thing.
One is a blanket ban by the government, the other is a private business choosing to place restrictions on its customers.
One activity could result in no harm to any one, the other impinges on the rights of everyone else present.
This is a very poorly thought out analogy.
No, it isn’t.
And besides, it was simply a question, one for Dio, not you.:mad:
But I don’t expect him to answer it. He still hasn’t responded to posts directed towards him in this thread.
I shall provide an example of how to post in a fact-based forum.
The first flaw in Airman’s response to Kimstu is a technical and nitpicky one, in that any business can in fact have a “no guns” policy regardless of whether or not it’s legal or actionable.
The second flaw is that Kimstu talks of “open carry” and Airman is talking about CCW, two very different topics. What Airman says about CCW is correct in most (I won’t say “all” because I’ll be damned if I want to search on all 49 States which allow CCW), but it’s not true for open carry in most States that I know of, which is what Kimstu was talking about. For example, Kansas has rather nice CCW laws, but in terms of open carry what Kimstu said was completely correct:
- Kansas has open carry.
- This right is absolutely subject to the whims of any store owner.
- No placard, warning, notice, sign, spray painting, or any notice is required on the stores for forbidding open carry.
- While it is not a criminal act (unless the local ordinances speak on the subject) to enter a store with a no guns policy which does not post it, failure to leave immediately when the store owner requests is misdemeanor trespassing. This is equally true in my State for open and CCW (excepting that CCW holders are exempt from local ordinances on this specific matter).
So yes, Diogenes is correct, but we have no idea for what reasons, since he couldn’t take time from his busy day to share them with the members of this message board.
Since Airman is a sharp guy, especially on this subject, I suspect he simply overlooked Kimstu’s qualifier of “open” and proceeded down the path of speaking w.r.t. CCW.
This one really makes me think. Parking lots are still private property, but they’re public access, and it’s inconvenient to remove your gun at home prior to your commute and not have it accessible therein. As a property owner, I think I should have the right to prohibit you. As a gun owner (which I’m not) I think I should have the right to take it to commons.
There’s also a matter of practicality - if a parent drives 20 miles from home to pick up their kid at, say, a shopping center they’ve never been to before, suddenly they see the lot is placarded as they drive up, their only legal option is to turn around and drive back home, drop their weapon off, and return.
And then there is the much more serious issue of strip malls - what if 7 shops at a strip mall allow CCW and 3 don’t? Which exact parking spots, lanes, and other asphalt-covered surfaces are they allowed in? They would have to label every single spot with a painted placard. You can’t put the onus on the property owner, since they obviously allow the individual stores freedom to placard their shops.
What if your only vehicle access to a store is via the parking lot of another store? We have a hot tub store near us that can only be reached by driving through the parking lot of a grocery store which is placarded on the door. One local mall here used to be placarded and claimed this applied to their parking lot - yet in the parking lot was a TGI Fridays, which wasn’t. Which exact spots were allowed? What about the access routes?
Anti-gunners like to claim the parking lot exemption for CCW bans is “shitting on the rights of Mr. and Mrs. American small business owner and wiping their ass on the American flag”, but the reality is that parking lots are often not treated the same legally as the interior of a structure, and there is so much more ambiguity involved in where the domain of the store extends.
The answer is. Conceled carry means exactky that concealed. If the gun was visible you would be in violation of the law and your food order would be the least of your worries.
According to Opencarry.org:
*
While Kansas is an open carry state, they have incomplete preemption on open carry. This means that there are some local ordinances that could constitute a nightmare for the law abiding citizen, except for concealed handgun permit holders when inside vehicles.*
So it is an open carry state, but apparently not in the same sense that, say, Arizona is.
Correct, and this is why I had in my post:
Here’s one for ya OC’ers, I work in an indoor shooting range. OC is legal in the city where it is located. However, like MOST shooting ranges they want the firearm to be cased. Here is one of many good reasons why: when someone walks in with a firearm in hand or holster, they may have another agenda other than to utilize the range. For legal purposes and SAFETY of customers and staff, that is why they must be cased when entering. Just because we have a right to bear arms and OC in legal areas, doesn’t mean you have the right to violate a business’s policy and rules. Those who have issues about not being able to carry into ranges per business policy needs to get over it since the firearm will be cased for a vert short amount of time. If you’re not sure if OC is okay with the business, simply ask their permission. There is no need to disrupt a place of business over OC. please be courteous to everyone who approaches you if you OC, avoid getting into unessessary confrontations which may lead to UNWANTED consequences or LE involvement. Other than that, be safe and happy OC’ing!
So…in other words, if someone wants to shoot up the place (that other “agenda”), you believe that your sign and/or policy is going to somehow prohibit that? :dubious:
True.