That half of us don’t. 
Then you have a lot more strict definition of socialism than I do. Remember, socialism is not equal to communism.
I don’t think I’m alone in “getting” it. What I “get” is also what makes me think it’s a socialist type policy in the first place. It’s not necessarily state controlled, but it is a centrally controlled collective that spreads the risk and covers all members. I’m NOT a socialist by the way, but I do think that some things are itching to be socialized. I think this is a major one, and think it’s going to happen here sooner rather than later. While I happen to be of a liberal persuasion, the vast majority of people in my tax bracket aren’t. When I, a highly paid and fully employed person who never even uses the system, has to waive his employer subsidized coverage and get private insurance to even feel moderately secure, the system is broken even by the most conservative of standards. It hasn’t affected you personally, but be aware that it’s affecting a lot of very rich, very conservative people, that even large companies are starting to push for it (admittedly out of self-interest, but that will only make their lobbyists push for it that much harder), and that we’ll definitely see it in my lifetime, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see it start getting hashed out in Congress in the next 4-6 years.
Actually, a lot of people are just like me. They would rather have people stomp on their feet than go to the doctor. They are insured so that if a catastrophic medical expense should come up, they won’t go from being in great shape to being homeless. I’m perfectly willing to pay for that risk, but I’d rather pay less, by spreading the risk around, while controlling insane costs. While I agree that the industry wants to be profitable, the profit levels of some health industry firms have grown at insane rates. That’s fine for those in the business, but they aren’t going to win this one.
I’m sure some do, and I’m sure we can limit what we cover. A lot of us would be perfectly happy if everyone was able to get decent preventative medicine, coverage of necessary medical care at VERY low copay levels, and reasonably low maximum out of pocket expenses under the most dire of circumstances. Basically, people get what they need, and no one goes broke because they had a stroke.
If my car insurance cost as much as my health insurance, I’d expect free oil changes (which aren’t that expensive to offer, as many dealers already do so for several years of ownership), tire changes, and probably car washes, too.
If this cost as much as health insurance, I’d expect an occasional house cleaning, probably naked under a french maid’s outfit.
Cite? I’d fully expect you to see it every day, but you don’t see the rest of us every day. I fully expect collection agency employees to see people avoiding answering the phone every day, but that doesn’t mean that everyone shirks their debts. I’m sure there are some who abuse the system, but I know a lot of insured people, and not one of them goes to the doctor for frivolous reasons. While that’s anecdotal, I’m pretty sure that the rest of the country doesn’t have the opposite experience from me.
I think your fear is unfounded, but if that is what is proposed, I’ll happily join you in protesting that aspect of it.
So is your problem with governmental control or universal health care?
Yes, I can honestly tell you that. Want to take a guess what would happen to a politician who runs on a campaign of free botox injections to all? I’d bet not what you’re claiming.
Not all of us think we’re the greatest country on earth, and the lack of universal health care is one of the reasons.
Oddly enough, the majority of the folks that I know who do have the “me, me, me” attitude are against universal health care. That’s not the same as saying that all of those against it have that attitude, so no slight intended.
While that’s at least partially true for the insurance companies themselves, it’s not necessarily true for all health care industries. The pharmaceutical industry, for example doesn’t have near the same level of competition as many other industries. Nor do hospitals, or even most doctors for that matter. Very few people feel comfortable asking a doctor up front what it will cost for certain things, plus many of them don’t know what they have, so there is no way to even know up front, so you can’t really price shop.
I do understand that this is your livelihood, and I can understand having a natural aversion to it for that reason. I do think you’re letting the bias blind you somewhat to reality, and you also need to remember that your unique insight from being on the inside also skews your perceptions of those of us on the outside. You only see and hear about the worst of us for the most part. With that said, I’m pretty sure that UHC is coming, that it’s coming fairly soon, and that neither you nor I could stop it if we wanted to. It won’t even matter which party is in power for the next several years, as this is just not stoppable at this point.
Jesus, NYC, why does the idea that people ought to be responsible for caring for themselves scare you so much? I have no problem expecting people to pay for their own checkups, and if they get sick because they skip them, they have to deal with the consequences, up to and including death. You know I smoked for a long time. If I come down with cancer next week, it’ll be my fault because of choices I made.
This is complete bullshit, because I am going to make sure those things are taken care of, even if I pay for them myself. (And remember, I have elected to do exactly that) Many of the people I see who are pleading poverty when it comes time to pay for their HI have 2 new cars in the driveway. If it comes down to it, a 10 year old Geo will get you around just fine. It’s all about priorities. I’ll tell you one thing, health care should be paid for for those living in poverty. That’s an acceptable social safety net. A 2 income family making over $50K a year who doesn’t want to give up the '05 Beemer and the yearly 2 week vacation to Maui? not so much, no.
THERE! THAT’S A HUGE PROBLEM RIGHT THERE! And many companies are moving to solve it, mine amongst them. But it’s late at night, I’ll elaborate more tomorrow, I’m going to bed.
Facts? What facts? Your claim that is as untestable and as unreliable as Bush’s assertion that the Iraq war could have been avoided if Saddam had simply “cooperated.” :rolleyes:
If you’ve ever asked your Dad for gratis medical advice or aid even once, then you’ve already benefitted from a resource that other people do not have – and your cavalier attitude towards those folks trying to get their own break in health care costs demonstrates your innate selfishness.
Paul Krugman’s analysis. Paul Krugman - US Health pt 2
Bloated bureacracy, vast administrative costs, Another nail in the coffin of private sector ideologues everywhere.
Moreover the contrast with UHC nations in more acute than Professor Krugman describes, for as Liberal rightly points out: The US subsidises EU defence spending; that substantial increase in the supply of money to the EU puts strong upward pressure on the price of health. Yet despite that market distortion, EU prices are in the region of half US prices.
Oh please.
I sincerely doubt many families making $50k are driving around in brand new Beemers and jetting off to Maui regularly. My folks make nearly double that, and are lucky to have a couple of new Hyundais and make it to New Orleans or the Outer Banks once a year.
Aside from the bullshit hypothetical anecdote aspect of your attitude, I’m offended by the implication that we’re complaining because we’re nothing but a bunch of malingerers who want to get everything for nothing. I’m looking at $642 a month in out of pocket medical expenses for the forseeable future. Or at least until next January, when the insurance company raises the premiums and copays again. That’s more than a third of what I take home.
And because this is apparently a significant numerator in your evaluation of whether people deserve affordable coverage or not, I’ll have you know that I drive a `96 Corsica with a 3’ scratch/6" gash down one quarter panel (thanks to some anonymous jackass in a parking lot), a slow coolant leak, and dying brakes, none of which we can afford to have fixed.
Yeah. Poor me. I’m pissed, but I know a lot of people have it a helluva lot worse.
Somebody remind me to buy a Mega Millions ticket after I get off work.
You’re a fucking idiot. I bet you can’t take a piss without bringing the war in Iraq in to it. I mentioned one factor in my decision. The fact that you are focusing on that to the exclusion of all other factors is typical. You don’t care one wit about discussing anything, you just want to use your ideology as a blunt instrument and beat everyone over the head with it.
#1 I am not talking about your situation. Obviously, that is not you. Remember however that deal with people who are looking for health insurance, and as a general rule, it’s the solid middle and upper middle class people who want to argue with me about UHC and complain about how it’s a crime that we don’t have any. Very much like the people arguing the point here, I suspect. Blue collar folks, by contrast, are mostly concerned with getting coverage and their focus is on making it work.
#2. Have you talked to anybody about options that might be available for people in your situation inyour area? If somebody came to me with the same situation, there are several options I would look into that might lower their costs. Something might be available where you live.
Wierddave, you are just an asshole. I used to think you were a reasonable guy I simply didn’t agree with. But no. You really are just an asshole.
Despite Nebraska’s version of “tort reform” which limits malpractice awards to $3 million, my insurance premiums have jumped from $60 every 2-week pay period to $98 in 5 years. There have also been increases in deductibles for basic care, and increases in prescription deductibles and co-pays.
IMHO, tort reform concentrates on the wrong end of things. Because the standard contingency fee for lawyers has risen from 1/3 of the award to 1/2 of the award, if I need 1.5 million to assure that I can pay for treatment and pay the costs of a modest lifestyle for my family and me, I have to win the state maximum award in order to have that much left over after legal fees. If the lawyer was limited to 33%, I could sue for the 3 million, allow myself to be bargained down to 2.25 million, and still have my 1.5 million.
If the doctor screwed me up to the point that even $2 million wouldn’t support me for the rest of my forseeable future, even a reduced lawyer’s fee wouldn’t cover my needs.
Cap the legal fees, cap “punitive damages”. Do not cap awards for actual expenses, anticipated costs of rehabilitation, continued medical aftercare, and
income replacement.
Please also allow me to weigh in on the whole “private business is always good and efficient/ government is always wasteful and bad” thing.
One of the few socialistic aspects of living in Nebraska is that all of the power plants in this state are publicly owned. Our electric rates are among the lowest in the nation.
Public power doesn’t have to waste money on lawyers and brokers to fight off takeover threats-- or to plot them, whichever the case may be. They also don’t pay stock dividends.
Private insurance companies not only waste money on dividends and stock market manipulations, but they also pay sales staffs to steal others’ clients/try to keep their own. None of this money goes to patient care and none goes into investments whose income could defray patient care costs.
Government Health would eliminate sales staffs, scheming lawyers and brokers,
dividend payouts, and generally result in lower overhead.
OP, I’m sorry to hear about your situation. I’m facing something pretty bad, too. My company may be closing its doors, which means bye bye to that insurance coverage. My husband’s meds cost about $500 per month with insurance. I feel sick every time I think about it.
Of course, I’m sure there are people in this thread who would say that I’m just supposed to watch him die because I don’t have any claim on their money or even their sympathy. The fundamentalists are right. This sure is a Christian nation.
Well aren’t you so lucky that you can afford to take care of those things yourself! Millions in this country are not so fortunate. Millions would have to choose between putting food on the table or spending hundreds out-of-pocket for needed care or medicines. These are the people who make too much for Medicaid, but not enough to afford basic care.
Yeah, it’s called transparency. All the states are introducing measures to force hospitals and doctors to make public or disclose upon request the fees for their services. The impetus for this is the new high-deductible health savings account plans. People with these plans have to pay a lot out-of-pocket, so they want to make sure they get the best deal. But remember, these people at least have coverage, and people with HSAs and MSAs usually have these plans through employers, so they’re not the unfortunate ones who have to get individual health insurance…
See? This is exactly what I am talking about. No working person in America should have to spend a third of their income on health insurance! That is fucking insane.
Yeah, you could probably get him something that only costs a fourth of his income, but it would have a bunch of exclusions, right? Well aren’t you a saint? :rolleyes:
While you maybe informed on insurance industry lobbying, you really have no idea what options are actually available out there for people who have to pay for their own insurance, do you?
I’m more of a saint than you for offering to take my time and see what can be done in his situation rather than wringing my hands and bemoaning the current situation, idiot.
Hey Dave, instead of name calling, why don’t you answer some of the questions you ignored in this thread? Or respond to some of the bigger points I made?
Earlier, in response to your comment:
I asked if you could explain why you think all of those other things should be provided by the government, but not health care? What’s the difference? Why do we provide our citizens with an education, infrastructure and safety, but not basic health care?
And you’re so busy name calling that you haven’t addressed one of the issues I keep bringing up. You might be fortunate enough to be able to afford to pay for basic care out-of-pocket, but what about people who can’t, but who make too much for Medicaid*? What about the personal anecdote I gave - what would I have done in that situation if I didn’t have insurance?
*Medicaid eligibility thresholds are very very low, and they keep getting lower as states deal with budget problems. Basically, if you’re a male working at a minimum wage job, you’d probably make too much for Medicaid in most states. That is why most Medicaid recipients are unemployed unwed mothers and their children - they’re the only ones poor enough to qualify.
Well, considering how your posts over the years have demonstrated your judgment to be questionable at best, I am encouraged by this news. However, I am also curious. What, pray tell, changed your estimation of me from disagreeable to asshole?
Well considering that individual health insurance is one of the big issues that I research, and I have also taken a personal interest in the issue, so I have read everything I can get my hands on about it, yeah, I do think I know what options are out there - pretty crappy ones.
You may know a lot about it to the extent of your company and its rates in the confines of laws of the states you sell in, but I research all 50 states and tend to see the “big picture” and the trends from year to year. I’m not saying I know more than you, but you certainly don’t know more than me either. This isn’t a pissing contest.
I have to go tell a widow with 7 kids that we won’t be paying for her lifesaving heart operation now. I’ve timed it so that I’ll arrive at the same time as the eviction crew, afterwards we’re going to drink coniac and light Cuban cigars with $100 bills, it should be very entertaining. I’ll be back later