Where's the line between advising someone to take steps to protect themselves and victim-blaming?

Well I don’t have a son but…
For my daughter, advice is more focussed on avoiding rape, for teen boys that I know (remembering I’m old and don’t party) it is more focussed on avoiding aggression. But is it neither all one nor all the other. For teen boys they do get advice on how not to be rapists as well.
Although I must admit - the other day I was compelled to warn my demon spawn that behaving “this way” is a good way to get herself into a fight when out at a club, where alcohol makes fuses shorter.

I warn all about the dangers of drink driving…but I am quick to acknowledge that the consequences are far greater for me (I MUST have a license for my job) than it is for someone who doesn’t drive for work. And my attitude is universally reflected amongst all people I know who are in the same situation.

Just wanted to emphasize this point, as it’s relevant to what I posted above (I was going to include this in the previous post but I accidentally posted before I was finished). The rapist didn’t decide to rape his date because she wore a short dress and kept crossing her legs suggestively. He decided to rape his date before he invited her on the date. Now, when he got caught he might’ve tried to blame it on her behavior and act like it was a one time lapse of judgment or something.

But he’s probably done this before. More serial rapists than previously thought also means fewer “one off” rapists than previously thought.

To a victim in a drunk driving accident, which could be an innocent bystander or the passengers in the drunk driver’s car or the driver emself, it doesn’t matter whether the driver needs a driver’s license for work.

??

The first statement seems to say that in two-thirds, not one-third, of sexual assaults the aggressor is intoxicated.

I’m puzzled by this. The potential consequences of drunk driving do include losing one’s license, yes. They also include dying or being permanently maimed in a car accident; killing and/or permanently maiming other people; and winding up with a long prison sentence for vehicular manslaughter. Those all strike me as far greater consequences than losing one’s license, even for people for whom losing the license means losing a job; and they’re all equally serious consequences for people who do and who don’t need a license to keep their job.

Do you really not understand the craziness of you comparing a driver vs. a non-driver in the context of drunk driving to a man versus a woman in the context of violence?

Do you not understand why this comparison makes you look clueless about what we’re talking about?

So your friends who don’t drive for work are more likely to drive drunk? Why are they still your friends?

I don’t see this as an analogous situation. No one should ever drink and drive regardless of their circumstances. And the laws and punishments are written to enforce that value.

Meh - I think they’re likely being a little unclear about “alcohol use” and “intoxicated”. I didn’t write the report.

Re: Drink driving
people I know who have lost license > people I know who are hurt by a drink driver

The likelihood of the first is far greater than that of the second, although I do agree that the impact / consequences of the second are greater.
In any case - after two standard beers I won’t drive, even though I am almost certainly still below the limit because, combined with the impairment, the risk to my license is simply not worth it.

That strikes me as more than just a little sanctimonious.

The people that I know are not perfect, and neither would I want them to be. There are actions in my past that I now regret, there are things that I have done that were ill considered.

I don’t know about your experience - in my experience there is also a rather large gulf between over the limit / shouldn’t be driving and drunk.

By the same token - nobody should ever speed, how many people do you know that have speeding tickets? Why are you still friends with them?

I forget where I read it----Ann Jones, maybe, in “Next Time She’ll Be Dead,” or Lundy Bancroft------but they noted that abusers often abuse alcohol just enough to lower inhibitions or provide an alibi. When men and women drink they are regarded very differently, though at least with regard to men, that might be changing.

You edited out the second paragraph, which involved an intoxicated woman in skimpy clothes tottering down a dark alley with a fistful of $100 bills. A man can do the equivalent----wearing a fancy suit-----but if he gets mugged, he won’t be blamed for it, instead of the attacker. That’s because we think men have rights to be safe in their persons and possessions, but deep down, society sees women as being uppity if we dare usurp that male right to not be blamed for someone else’s actions against you.

Look at all the dress codes in this country, where women and girls wearing comfy clothes in, say, hot weather is always regarded as distracting or an act of almost hostility against men and boys. Boys are “distracted”, we’re told. Yet boys wander around topless all day long without a single bit of criticism. It’s girls and women whose skin is regarded as nearly an act of hostility.

Why?

He could? Since when?
In all that I’ve seen and done a guy behaving that way would be called all kinds of a moron and told he deserved to be mugged.

Yes, yes he will. In a couple of FB groups I belong to a dude said his car was robbed, some jerk was going around and check unlocked car doors. No less than 1/3 of the posters- about 6- blamed him for leaving his truck door unlocked. There have been like a half dozen incidents of this on my FB groups. Oh and having a package stolen off your porch- the dudes fault for not having a 'ring doorbell".:rolleyes:

On another MB, some white dude was complaining he got mugged at gunpoint in Compton. Guess how many people blamed *him *for being in Compton?

Victim blaming is asexual. Jerks blame the victim.

Now sure for* sexual assaults*, it’s mostly the female victim who gets blamed-but since a extremely high % of sexual assaults are against women (and some vs kids of any sex) of course then the victim to be blamed is female. :frowning:

I think some of this is hard coded into our genetics. Women being the given the ability to carry on the species are looked upon as more important, and as such we (as a whole WE) want to keep them safe. It is the primary reason that until recently women were not allowed to fight in wars on those front lines.
As a husband, and a father, I very much treat my children (sons and daughters) differently but I would give them the same advice. With the caveat that I would be less mad at my sons if they did something inherently dangerous than if my daughters did.
Is that the Patriarchal society we live in or something else? I don’t care to guess but it is no more victim blaming to tell someone you care about that maybe they need to modify behavior to lessen risk. Does it suck? Most assuredly but that is the world of today.
Risk assessment is the job of the individual and those who care about said individual.

People would blame him, yes, but if identified, the mugger would be arrested by the cops, tried by a court, and convicted by a jury.

For sexual assault, those things are not givens.

You are making an appeal to nature (genetics) but you are pointing to something that is very culture-specific. Female warriors have existed since the beginning of human history all throughout the world.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

As others have said, I don’t think this is true at all.

Enlighten me because all I found was this (short list and very specific definitions of warrior)

If the likelihood that a drunk’s sister was in a blood cult was anything close to the likelihood that a nineteen year who wanted to “date” an eleven year old was up to no good[sup]*[/sup], then just as much.

Regards,
Shodan

[sup]*[/sup]No, I am not going to dig up a cite. Deal with it.

My experience is that drinking and driving isn’t an “oops that could have me/nobody is perfect/everybody speeds sometimes” situation. It’s a potentially deadly act. It’s a serious crime.

In our groups someone who is driving either sticks to non-alcoholic beverages or drinks very little. (Since I don’t drink it’s often me who is driving. I’m happy to be available for that) And people in a group enforce the rule on each other—literally “friends don’t let friends drive drunk.”

None of my close friends or relatives drive under the influence and no one in my close social networks has been cited for it.

.

Maybe you should? Maybe you should step back and consider how being harsher on your female children when they take risks might have negative effects on their development relative to your male children.

I love my parents for not treating their female children like we were frail, delicate flowers just waiting to be gobbled up by the world. As they raised us, they encouraged us to do scary things. Doesn’t mean they didn’t worry. But when I rented a U-Haul van to move from northern NJ to South Florida all by myself as a twenty-something while in the midst of a hurricane, my parents did not block my way. They didn’t tell me I was making the worst decision ever. They just trusted that I would figure the shit out. Which I did. And when I got settled into my new apartment and I called them up to tell them I was OK, they congratulated me on being a bad ass. My father once told me that that day marked the moment when my parents realized I could take on the world.

Everyone deserves parents who believe they can take on the world. I feel sorry for women who have been taught that they have to be extra cautious lest they disappoint their angry fathers. Meanwhile their brothers get to have all the fun and adventure and success they want.

Even if it is hard-coded (I don’t think it is), you can still resist that impulse to be overprotective. My parents managed to figure out how to do this.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk