Which Chinese Should I Learn?

Factual Questions
1

I want to learn Chinese for pleasure, not for business. I am in the Toronto area.

Which Chinese language should I learn-- Cantonese or Mandarin?

I assume, that Mandarin is the most common in Mainland China. What about Taiwan?

Is Cantonese more common in North America than Mandarin? Which is more commonly spoken in the Toronto area and in Canada?

Thanks…

Rigardu, kaj vi ekvidos.

2

Mandarin is the official dialect/language for both mainland China and Taiwan. Cantonese was only popular in the US because early Chinese immigrants were mostly from Canton. Now that times have changed, Cantonese is somewhat on the decline since there are more Mandarin speakers, and the new generation of Chinese in mainland China and Taiwan are all required to speak Mandarin as well. From a difficulty standpoint, it may also be easier to learn Mandarin too.

So, on the popularity of Cantonese…

1): In Mainland China — Basically just the older people who live in Canton, and some of the youngsters. Hong Kong is an exception though, as most people there speak Cantonese.

2): In Taiwan — All Mandarin, some Taiwanese, no Cantonese.

3): In the US and Canada — Descendants from the original Cantonese immigrants will likely speak some Cantonese, while the rest speak Mandarin. This, for example, is probably why Cantonese might still popular in your local China Town. On the other hand, many Cantonese speakers have also learned Mandarin since they know Cantonese won’t be around forever. I’d say it’s a 40/60 split between Cantonese/Mandarin.

I guess what I’m trying to say is: learn Mandarin. It’s more popular, and also easier to learn due to its pronunciation and the abundance of educational material available.

3

The reply pretty much covers it… Since it is for pleasure, it might matter where you’d intend to travel. Might also depend on what you might like to read, if you mean to include literature in your pleasure (the writing would be the same, but not your comprehension).

4

Im not Chinese, so Im no expert, but I struggled with the same question last year before moving to Guangzhou (Canton). I chose to concentrate in Mandarin and I think I chose correctly. Here’s why. Most places where Cantonese is spoken are bilingual. All the people may not be, but many are. If you know one of the languages you can get around. In various Chinatowns and in Hong Kong, the languages are Cantonese and English. In Cantonese parts of China (mostly Guangdong province), it is Cantonese and Mandarin. In fact here in Guangzhou, many conversations I overhear seem to flip-flop between the two languages. Everyone in mainland China who has been to school can speak Mandarin. So in short, Mandarin is the most useful if you want to use it for travel. I’ve read that if you can speak Mandarin and English you can probably communicate with almost half of the people in the world.

Furthermore as has been noted, Mandarin is a little easier; fewer “tones” and a single well-accepted “romanization” system. Having said that, Im no expert. I wouldn’t describe myself as being able to speak Chinese. A little more than half a year of working on Mandarin has got me just to the point where I can get around town, buy stuff and travel about China mostly by myself. (Im useless for conversations, though.)

Another decision you will have to make is whether to try to learn the tradional writing system (used in Hong Kong, Taiwan, and your local Chinatown) or the similar-but-not-quite-the-same simplified writing system used on the mainland. For the same reasons I chose to work on the simplified version. Either way learning to read is a slow process.

5

Mandarin is really the only choice, but let me explain.

Imagine that China (including Taiwan and HK) has more languages/dialects and is more diverse that Europe. The only language that has a hope of being understood throughout China and Chinese overseas communities is Mandarin (putonghua). That is not to say that it will be understood. However, with the advent of TV and Radio, most people, even deep in the Chinese countryside can understand basic mandarin.

In some of the minority areas, such as Tibet, Mongolia and elsewhere, you would be lucky to have 100 words of Mandarin. Then again, how much local Tibetan dialect do you understand?

That said, very few of the billion plus Chinese speak Mandarin as a native language.

So, unless you are going to do something really unusual like investigate the indigenous medical practices of the Sichuanese countryside, where it would be essential that you understand the Sichuanese spoken in that particular area, Mandarin is the only way to go.

I’m a white bread no crust American that majored in Chinese at University, have lived in Taiwan, HK and China for close to 15 years, am married to a Shanghaiese, have settled in Shanghai, and am co-author of the guidebook Southwest China Off the Beaten Track.

After a couple of years, I can barely understand some Tainwanese, Cantonese, Sichuanese and Shanghaiese. But if you want to really communicate, stick to Mandarin.

Also, learn the pinyin romanization system used here in China. Teaching materials are okay, but more importantly the dictionaries are the best for non-native Chinese speakers.

Don’t bother with characters unless you really like them. Even if you know a few thousand, you’ll still be functionally illiterate.

Good luck. LEarning Chinese can be extremely frustrating, but also the most rewarding thing you may ever do.

6

Cool, a real expert in our midst! I gotta disagree about learning characters, though. I know only a couple hundred (maybe I can recognize a few more, write a few less) so I am definitely functionally illiterate, nevertheless I find it tremendously useful. Some obvious ones to start with are the “man” and “woman” to make rest room navigation possible. After that maybe geographical names of places where you might travel. And numbers, by all means learn numbers. This type of minimal knowledge has made it much easier for me to get around town by bus (I can recognize the stops), read maps and double check train tickets. And, after you learn to write a number of characters you will have figured out the general ground rules for copying any character legibly from a dictionary to a scrap of paper so you can communicate to a cabbie or store clerk if your pronunciation seems to be failing you. I think if you are interested enough to learn some Chinese before traveling, picking up a few characters along the way will really help you be a bit independent, and heck its kinda fun. I think that the tiny little paperback “I Can Read That” by Julie Sussman is fantastic for learning your first 50 characters.
I myself have modest goals. I’m working towards being able to read a menu.

7

Hmmm. Let me try to give a definitive answer. Most of the answers above contain some half truths and some untruths. The best advice I can give you is learn the dialect that is spoken most in your city. It’s no good learning Mandarin when everyone one speaks Cantonese.

More comments:

  1. People in Taiwan speak Mandarin and Taiwanese. The natives speak Taiwanese. When the KMT went to Taiwan they tried to force the natives from speaking Taiwanese. But there are more Taiwanese than KMT descendents. Chances are, the people you meet from Taiwan speak both equally well. But I’ve known many Taiwanese who only speak Taiwanese at home.
  2. Saying all people from China speak Mandarin is like saying people from Europe speak European. People from the Peking area speak Mandarin. The further away from Peking you get the worse their Mandarin gets. People from the South, e.g. Canton are notorious for speaking bad Mandarin. But yes, everyone is talk Mandarin in schools. Therefore they speak schoolboy Mandarin.
  3. Cantonese is strong here because many immigrants were from Canton. But the strongest early dialect here is Toisanese. These are the guys who came to mine gold and build the railways. As far back as 20 years that’s what they spoke in Chinatown, not Cantonese. They only speak Cantonese more in Chinatown nowadays is because of recent immigrants (under 20 years).
  4. There’s also a lot of Chewchow. These guys live in a coastal province and were famous for leaving to find their fortunes elsewhere. If you meet Chinese immigrants from Malaysia, Cambodia, Indonesia, etc. chances are they will speak Chewchow or Teochow. Chewchow and Taiwanese are closely related but different.
  5. Even though Cantonese and Toisanese are from the same province and the same stock of people they cannot understand each other.
  6. This is same of all the above dialects. Throw everybody together in a room and it’s almost like have Spanish, French, English and Germans together. China is like a Europe than became one country and stayed one country for a couple of thousands of years. Northern and Southern Chinese even look different from each other like E. and W. Europeans.
  7. Cantonese is a strong language because of Hong Kong. Hong Kong is almost like a powerful and rich country on its own. To speak Cantonese was to be able to wheel and deal with the movers (until now).
  8. Now that China has taken over HK, HK has been put in its place. For business, you must learn Mandarin now because most US-Chinese business is done with China (not HK), and even the HKnese have to kowtow towards China and learn Mandarin.
8

Ho ve! Thanks for everyone’s answers. Perhaps I should ask which Chinese my friends speak; I’ve a strong suspicion it’s Cantonese.

And I have read vague reference to sharp differences between different Chinese-language communities in various parts of this city (Toronto).

Maybe I’ll stick to English, Esperanto and French for now.

Rigardu, kaj vi ekvidos.

9

(Just clearing up something here :))

Not sure what you mean by Taiwanese, but the people who had populated the island before Mandarin speaking peoples arrived spoke about 20 different languages of the Austronesian family. Half of those are extinct, and the remaining languages have about 200,000 speakers total. The major divisions are: Atayalic, Paiwanic, and Tsouic. Soooo if you wanted to learn “Taiwanese”, you have about 10 languages left to learn, from three of the major branches :).

I’ve also heard there is a minority of Hakka speakers in Taiwan as well.

10

The people you are talking about are popularly called the aborigines (sorry, I don’t know if this term in PC or not). Generally their numbers are small enough that people don’t consider them native, even though they were there first. I think now they are just relegated to the mountains (by choice?)

Ethnic Chinese have been migrating to Taiwan for centuries, mainly from Fukien province. They consider themselves natives! (and that’s what I did when I used that term).

Hakkas are all over the place. It means guest people. I think the Hakkas used to live in the middle of China and as the regular Chinese moved South they started to push the Hakkas towards the south. Hakkas look the same to me but they’re supposed to be somewhat different than the rest of the Han Chinese. I also think for centuries they were pariahs. Speaking of different ethnic groups there are groups of Mien still somewhat isolated in parts of Southern China. From what I’ve seen, their women are really exotic looking and they do look different from Han Chinese.

11

They are also generally good at business, according to stereotype. For all these reasons, they’re sometimes referred to as the “Jews of China”.

DHR