You think removing ANNIE HALL makes him more memorable?
I know it was best picture. It was good. But in the arc of comedy it is the beginning of his relevance as an “artist” and so it is the end of his relevance as a comic genius. My feeling is he does not have artistic chops.
I was a big fan. I actually own the original art to the first day of his comic strip.
Or Crimes and Misdemeanors, the real best film of 1989. Or Mighty Aphrodite. Or Midnight in Paris. Etc.
I think people talking about an early death for the likes of Dylan are misreading the thread. As an earlier poster pointed out, Dylan’s spotty releases in the '80s and '90s really haven’t dented his reputation at all; Rolling Stone just named him the best songwriter of all time. (Yeah, it’s Rolling Stone, but still.) Dylan’s 2006 album Modern Times debuted at #1 (his first chart-topper in thirty years), so I’d say his rep managed to survive Saved pretty well.
Besides, I wouldn’t want to be without Love and Theft, his best (IMO) since Blood on the Tracks.
Bob Dylan up to ca. 1966 fascinates the heck out of me. It’s not just about the music. It’s about the charisma and the personality. And something else, that I’m having a hard time defining. He’s like a movie character trespassing on reality. Don’t agree? Go watch Dont Look Back.
(Actually, just go watch Dont Look Back, period. It’s the best movie ever.)
Bob Dylan including his later career is human, all too human.
Yeah, I know, that’s a high standard to hold someone to. It’s probably not fair to knock someone for being human.
A friend of mine saw him perform a month or so ago. Said it was a great show!
Those songs are both on the All That You Can’t Leave Behind album, which is a terrific album from one end to the other. You can kill 'em off after that if you must.
The problem is, that’s a bit like saying “the best team in AAA ball” or some such.
I register that as “better than Desire,” since that’s the only good album he had for some time afterwards, since Street Legal is pretty weak, and then you get his Jesus-freak albums, and the less said about them, the better.
Better than Desire is pretty good actually, but that came out just shy of 40 years ago, and if one album better than Desire is the best he’s got to show for the past four decades, that isn’t saying much.
The point is that, in my view, Dylan did actually come back within striking distance of his creative peak — a high plateau indeed — at a time when many people were marveling that he was even still alive. The fact that the 80s and 90s weren’t all that good for him (excepting Infidels and Oh Mercy, two very good records) isn’t really relevant; if that’s how long it took him to come back around to making Time Out of Mind, Love and Theft, Modern Times and Tempest, then I’m glad he lived long enough to do it.
I don’t think they are misreading the OP at all.
If Dylan had died in 1967 he would have been forever known as the oracle of the modern age; a cross between Arthur Rimbaud, Elvis Presley, James Dean, and Thomas Paine. The arguments towards Blood on the tracks and later lose the idea, and dilute the impact. It’s not as good a case then.
If Joni Mitchell had died right after “Hejira”: She would be widely seen as being up there with Lennon McCartney, Brian Wilson, Neil Young. She is anyway, but there is a lot of sexism in the world.
Okay, but the thing is, Dustin Hoffman is basically five to ten years past the age when most people in this country have retired all together, so if he wants to sit around and take some less demanding roles for golden years, well, the man’s already earned the lifetime achievement award. I hardly think he needs to feel deep shame for Kung Fu Panda. And I don’t think we can lay the blame of the Fockers series at his feet. No one walked away from that completely clean.
I think Tom Cruise stared in what was easily one of the best sci fi movies of the last five years just last summer. Also, Tropic Thunder.
Cuba Gooding Jr dying after Jerry McGuire might have given him some kind “what could have been” aura, but I really don’t think so. He was good, but it wasn’t all that memorable a role. He wasn’t Heath Ledger in Brokeback or Dark Knight.
I’m not saying there’s not some truth to this exercise, though, morbid as it might be. Like, you guys remember how tragic it was when Jon Voigt got hit by that bus just after winning the oscar for Coming Home and was never in any movies where he was vomited up by a giant snake, or acting opposite talking babies geniuses, or karate fighting CGI dogs? And also never turned into a crazy person?
Somehow completely missed that this thread had a second page and was a zombie.
So long as the thread’s back up and running, though: John Travolta.
You could kill him off right after SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER gave way to GREASE and leave everybody asking “what if?” – or you could kill him off right after PULP FICTION left everybody saying “yeah, that’s a hell of a comeback, but won’t he collapse again?”
By now, of course, we know the answer is “yup.”
But if he dies after carrying GET SHORTY and FACE/OFF and so on – just so long as it’s before BATTLEFIELD EARTH is the thing, so maybe right after that eerily accurate impression of Bill Clinton in PRIMARY COLORS – then I figure everybody says “y’know, he sure learned his lesson, because he used that second chance to do quality work and display talents we didn’t know he had; I wonder what he would’ve done next?”
As a devoted fan of the band for 30 years or so, I have to say … you might be on target, to be honest. I was going to argue for setting the death point at New Adventures, but that would have given the world at least one, and probably two, albums’ worth of proof that they had crested as high as they ever would, which provides WAY too much closure to be an effective legacy-maker. Yeah, knocking them off with the strains of “Everybody Hurts” fresh in our minds would have been quite the stunner.
If Ben Elton had died in 1990 we wouldn’t have got Popcorn, but everybody would be wondering how he would have topped Blackadder and The Young Ones
This past year, Keanu Reeves had so big a hit with JOHN WICK that a sequel is now apparently in the works – and before that, he managed an even bigger hit as the star of THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL – and before those #1-at-the-box-office showings, he was top-billed in the impressively profitable THE LAKE HOUSE opposite Sandra Bullock, which of course reminded everyone of when he was top-billed opposite Bullock in the even-more-impressively-profitable SPEED; and in between movies with Bullock, the MATRIX franchise raked in, y’know, a billion-and-a-half.
And so on. And he’s headlined a lot of other movies that likewise grossed well over double their budgets: he’s Johnny Mnemonic, he’s John Constantine, he’s top-billed with an Oscar winner in the supporting role, he’s top-billed with a two-time Oscar winner in the supporting role – he’s an iconic movie star, is what I’m saying.
So imagine his movie-star career stays exactly the same – except Alex Winter dies right after they play BILL AND TED, and we wonder what he’d have done since.
Mick Hucknall.
If only so they could use my suggested obit title: Simply Dead. Plus, avoid all his personal craziness.
This is a perfect example.
I could not agree more. I really miss John. George too.
Paul may have had a lot of talent. But IMHO, John and George were the heart of that band. So sad. The good ones just seem to go early.