I’m interested in reading the whole bible. I’ve read most of it, in pieces, over the years, but I’d like to read the whole thing at once and really get the whole story in one piece. The bible I have is a Marian edition (Catholic). I’m pretty sure there are more accurate versions. I know there’s really no “original” text, but are there any “scientific” (Not by a church)translations of early versions? What about the Dead Sea Scrolls? Are any of these published anywhere?
Well, as for the OT, there’s the original Hebrew. I’d say that qualifies as the most authentic version. What I believe you are trying to ask is “which is the most accurate translation…” which, unfortunately, I don’t have an answer for.
Zev Steinhardt
This has been debated many times on this board, even as recently as last week.
The best thing to do is read it in the original Hebrew (OT) and Greek (NT).
Failing that, there are some complications. A technically accurate and literal translation may not be very comprehensible for a modern reader, since some ideas and words don’t translate well without knowing a lot about the times the passages were written in. Issues of religious doctrine cause some translations to differ, not to mention style.
I’d buy several translations, starting with the NIV (one of the best modern translations), the King James, and a paraphrased bible. The paraphrased bible is good for figuring out cryptic sentences, and for getting the main idea when the NIV and King James are too terse (because they stick closely to the original text).
There are many web sites that let you browse bible passages in several versions at once, and you can even buy parallel bibles.
Arjuna34
There is even a Greek Testament with interlinear KJV and NIV translations, which I have a copy of. I think it’s available in the States…I’ll have to go home to check it.
I think that the Tyndale New Testament was slightly closer to the Greek, judging from the supplied “literal” translation of Greek words from the interlinear Bible. You can get a modern-spelling version of the Tyndale Bible from Yale University Press (ed. David Daniell). Daniell has some odd ideas about the modern utility of the Tyndale Bible, so I’m inclined to take his editing with a grain of salt. Then again, my wife and I had the Bible reading at our wedding taken from the Tyndale version, so there you go.
I’ve always been inclined to think that the New King James Version is more authentic than the NIV, but that could just be my bias against those evangelical who think that the NIV is The Only Translation.
It seems to me that you are more interested in a version of the Bible which lends itself to being read by you personally. Makes sense. Even if you are using a version of the book which is held in less esteem (purists don’t dig NIV very much) you can always reference things against other versions after you make it through the book itself.
Here is a Genesis 1 in several styles:
[quote]
New International Version (NIV)[ol]
[li]In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.[/li][li]Now the earth was [[sub]1[/sub]] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.[/li][li]And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.[/li][li]God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.[/li][li]God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning–the first day.[/li][li]And God said, “Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water.”[/li][li]So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so.[/li][li]God called the expanse “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning–the second day.[/li][li]And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so.[/li][li]God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.[/li][li]Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so.[/li][li]The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.[/li][li]And there was evening, and there was morning–the third day.[/li][li]And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years,[/li][li]and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so.[/li][li]God made two great lights–the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.[/li][li]God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth,[/li][li]to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good.[/li][li]And there was evening, and there was morning–the fourth day.[/li][li]And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky.”[/li][li]So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.[/li][li]God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.”[/li][li]And there was evening, and there was morning–the fifth day.[/li][li]And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so.[/li][li]God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.[/li][li]Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [[sub]2[/sub]] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”[/li][li]So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.[/li][li]God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”[/li][li]Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.[/li][li]And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground–everything that has the breath of life in it–I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.[/li][li]God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning–the sixth day.[/ol][/li][ol][sub][li][2] Or possibly became[/li][li][26] Hebrew; Syriac all the wild animals[/ol][/sub][/li][/quote]
[quote]
King James Version (KJV)[ol]
[li]In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.[/li][li]And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.[/li][li]And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.[/li][li]And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.[/li][li]And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.[/li][li]And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.[/li][li]And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.[/li][li]And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.[/li][li]And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.[/li][li]And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.[/li][li]And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.[/li][li]And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.[/li][li]And the evening and the morning were the third day.[/li][li]And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:[/li][li]And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.[/li][li]And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.[/li][li]And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,[/li][li]And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.[/li][li]And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.[/li][li]And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.[/li][li]And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.[/li][li]And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.[/li][li]And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.[/li][li]And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.[/li][li]And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.[/li][li]And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.[/li][li]So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.[/li][li]And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.[/li][li]And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.[/li][li]And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.[/li][li]And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day[/ol][/li][/quote]
[quote]
New American Standard Bible (NASB)[ol]
[li]In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.[/li][li]The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.[/li][li]Then God said, ""Let there be light’’; and there was light.[/li][li]God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.[/li][li]God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.[/li][li]Then God said, ""Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.’’[/li][li]God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.[/li][li]God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.[/li][li]Then God said, “” Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear’’; and it was so.[/li][li]God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.[/li][li]Then God said, ""Let the earth sprout vegetation: plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them’’; and it was so.[/li][li]The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good.[/li][li]There was evening and there was morning, a third day.[/li][li]Then God said, ""Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;[/li][li]and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth’’; and it was so.[/li][li]God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.[/li][li]God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,[/li][li]and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good.[/li][li]There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.[/li][li]Then God said, ""Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.’’[/li][li]God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good.[/li][li]God blessed them, saying, ""Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.’’[/li][li]There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.[/li][li]Then God said, ""Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind’’; and it was so.[/li][li]God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.[/li][li]Then God said, ""Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.’’[/li][li]God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.[/li][li]God blessed them; and God said to them, “” Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.’’[/li][li]Then God said, ""Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;[/li][li]and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food’’; and it was so.[/li][li]God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.[/ol][/li][/quote]
[quote]
Revised Standard Version (RSV)[ol]
[li]In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.[/li][li]The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.[/li][li]And God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.[/li][li]And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.[/li][li]God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.[/li][li]And God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”[/li][li]And God made the firmament and separated the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament. And it was so.[/li][li]And God called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.[/li][li]And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.[/li][li]God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.[/li][li]And God said, “Let the earth put forth vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, upon the earth.” And it was so.[/li][li]The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.[/li][li]And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.[/li][li]And God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,[/li][li]and let them be lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.[/li][li]And God made the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night; he made the stars also.[/li][li]And God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth,[/li][li]to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.[/li][li]And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.[/li][li]And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the firmament of the heavens.”[/li][li]So God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.[/li][li]And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.”[/li][li]And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.[/li][li]And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so.[/li][li]And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the cattle according to their kinds, and everything that creeps upon the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.[/li][li]Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”[/li][li]So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.[/li][li]And God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.”[/li][li]And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food.[/li][li]And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.[/li][li]And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day.[/ol][/li][/quote]
[quote]
Darby Translation (DARBY)[ol]
[li]In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.[/li][li]And the earth was waste and empty, and darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.[/li][li]And God said, Let there be light. And there was light.[/li][li]And God saw the light that it was good; and God divided between the light and the darkness.[/li][li]And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening, and there was morning – the first day.[/li][li]And God said, Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it be a division between waters and waters.[/li][li]And God made the expanse, and divided between the waters that are under the expanse and the waters that are above the expanse; and it was so.[/li][li]And God called the expanse Heavens. And there was evening, and there was morning – a second day.[/li][li]And God said, Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together to one place, and let the dry [land] appear. And it was so.[/li][li]And God called the dry [land] Earth, and the gathering together of the waters he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.[/li][li]And God said, Let the earth cause grass to spring up, herb producing seed, fruit-trees yielding fruit after their kind, the seed of which is in them, on the earth. And it was so.[/li][li]And the earth brought forth grass, herb producing seed after its kind, and trees yielding fruit, the seed of which is in them, after their kind. And God saw that it was good.[/li][li]And there was evening, and there was morning – a third day.[/li][li]And God said, Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens, to divide between the day and the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years;[/li][li]and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens, to give light on the earth. And it was so.[/li][li]And God made the two great lights, the great light to rule the day, and the small light to rule the night, – and the stars.[/li][li]And God set them in the expanse of the heavens, to give light on the earth,[/li][li]and to rule during the day and during the night, and to divide between the light and the darkness. And God saw that it was good.[/li][li]And there was evening, and there was morning – a fourth day.[/li][li]And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living souls, and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of the heavens.[/li][li]And God created the great sea monsters, and every living soul that moves with which the waters swarm, after their kind, and every winged fowl after its kind. And God saw that it was good.[/li][li]And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply on the earth.[/li][li]And there was evening, and there was morning – a fifth day.[/li][li]And God said, Let the earth bring forth living souls after their kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth, after their kind. And it was so.[/li][li]And God made the beast of the earth after its kind, and the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing of the ground after its kind. And God saw that it was good.[/li][li]And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over the whole earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth on the earth.[/li][li]And God created Man in his image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.[/li][li]And God blessed them; and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over every animal that moveth on the earth.[/li][li]And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb producing seed that is on the whole earth, and every tree in which is the fruit of a tree producing seed: it shall be food for you;[/li][li]and to every animal of the earth, and to every fowl of the heavens, and to everything that creepeth on the earth, in which is a living soul, every green herb for food. And it was so.[/li][li]And God saw everything that he had made, and behold it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning – the sixth day.[/ol][/li][/quote]
[quote]
Young’s Literal Translation (YLT)[ol]
[li]In the beginning of God’s preparing the heavens and the earth --[/li][li]the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness [is] on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,[/li][li]and God saith, Let light be;' and light is.[/li][li]And God seeth the light that [it is] good, and God separateth between the light and the darkness,[/li][li]and God calleth to the light
Day,’ and to the darkness He hath called Night;' and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day one.[/li][li]And God saith,
Let an expanse be in the midst of the waters, and let it be separating between waters and waters.’[/li][li]And God maketh the expanse, and it separateth between the waters which [are] under the expanse, and the waters which [are] above the expanse: and it is so.[/li][li]And God calleth to the expanse Heavens;' and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day second.[/li][li]And God saith,
Let the waters under the heavens be collected unto one place, and let the dry land be seen:’ and it is so.[/li][li]And God calleth to the dry land Earth,' and to the collection of the waters He hath called
Seas;’ and God seeth that [it is] good.[/li][li]And God saith, Let the earth yield tender grass, herb sowing seed, fruit-tree (whose seed [is] in itself) making fruit after its kind, on the earth:' and it is so.[/li][li]And the earth bringeth forth tender grass, herb sowing seed after its kind, and tree making fruit (whose seed [is] in itself) after its kind; and God seeth that [it is] good;[/li][li]and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day third.[/li][li]And God saith,
Let luminaries be in the expanse of the heavens, to make a separation between the day and the night, then they have been for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years,[/li][li]and they have been for luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth:’ and it is so.[/li][li]And God maketh the two great luminaries, the great luminary for the rule of the day, and the small luminary – and the stars – for the rule of the night;[/li][li]and God giveth them in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth,[/li][li]and to rule over day and over night, and to make a separation between the light and the darkness; and God seeth that [it is] good;[/li][li]and there is an evening, and there is a morning – day fourth.[/li][li]And God saith, Let the waters teem with the teeming living creature, and fowl let fly on the earth on the face of the expanse of the heavens.'[/li][li]And God prepareth the great monsters, and every living creature that is creeping, which the waters have teemed with, after their kind, and every fowl with wing, after its kind, and God seeth that [it is] good.[/li][li]And God blesseth them, saying,
Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and the fowl let multiply in the earth:’[/li][li]and there is an evening, and there is a morning – day fifth.[/li][li]And God saith, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after its kind, cattle and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after its kind:' and it is so.[/li][li]And God maketh the beast of the earth after its kind, and the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing of the ground after its kind, and God seeth that [it is] good.[/li][li]And God saith,
Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, and let them rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that is creeping on the earth.’[/li][li]And God prepareth the man in His image; in the image of God He prepared him, a male and a female He prepared them.[/li][li]And God blesseth them, and God saith to them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over every living thing that is creeping upon the earth.'[/li][li]And God saith,
Lo, I have given to you every herb sowing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree in which [is] the fruit of a tree sowing seed, to you it is for food;[/li][li]and to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the heavens, and to every creeping thing on the earth, in which [is] breath of life, every green herb [is] for food:’ and it is so.[/li][li]And God seeth all that He hath done, and lo, very good; and there is an evening, and there is a morning – day the sixth.[/ol][/li][/quote]
All of the above can be found at The Bible Gateway, which is a great Bible search engine.
Yer pal,
Satan
TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING:
Four months, three weeks, six days, 23 hours, 3 minutes and 15 seconds.
5998 cigarettes not smoked, saving $749.80.
Extra time with Drain Bead: 2 weeks, 6 days, 19 hours, 50 minutes.
It is a very good idea to use two or three (at least) if you’re serious. Being a seminarian for many years now, I have a whole shelf of different translations.
All in all, I think the best modern English translation is the New Revised Standard Version. This is the most eccumenical translation, with scholars of most persuasions involved. This tends to weed out most denominational bias. The Oxford Annotated addition with Apocrypha is probably the best overall version a person can get. Very good study notes.
My personal favorite is the New Jerusalem Bible. It is a Roman Catholic version but seems fairly free from bias. This is a version that is both more poetic and more literal, so it is not always the easiest read. It was actually designed more for study purposes (great notes) than liturgical, although it can be used for any purpose. I also like the Revised New English and New American Bible.
The New International Version is very popular. It is not bad in terms of overall accuracy, but almost everyone that worked on it is basically of an evangelical, conservative to fundie stripe. That’s fine if that’s what you are, and if you only want that viewpoint, but non-evangelicals and non-Protestants tend to be dubious of it. I think it has a great deal of bias towards conservative, evangelical theology and reads fairly stiffly, so I don’t like it much.
I’m also not very fond of the New King James Version, although I have used it extensively. English speaking Eastern Orthodox people are based on it. It is based on the same text that the old King James Version is based on, which is based on texts that are inferior to what is currently available…that’s a big controversy we won’t get into here.
The Today’s English Version (Good News) is fine for people who are not used to reading the Bible, or have a lower level of English proficiency. The Living Bible is basically a paraphrase rather than a translation, so that is less useful still for people who want to seriously study the Bible.
I’m an athiest myself, but I am interested in stuff like this. Lots of problems . Even if you could read and understand the earliest known copy, word meanings change, context changes, etc.
I ran into this problem trying to decipher pictographs. Think about it, if a historian in the future finds a picture of Smoky the Bear, he will recognize it’s a bear wearing a hat, but wouldn’t have any idea it meant “don’t start forest fires”
Plus from all that I have read, what we now call “The Bible” is what remains of a lot of original writings that have been patched together. Other portions have since surfaced, but given the way the Church is the’re not gonna tamper with THE SACRED TEXT.
As I understand it the DSS’s are heavily protected from ‘outside’ translators.
Well, if you are going to discuss the Bible with others, THE Bible has always been the KJV. Great language, too. Not the easiest or “best”. The most authoritative is the Anchor Bible, comes in a set the size of a set of enclyclopeadias.
Wow, thanks guys.
Satan, I have that site bookmarked and will no doubt use it a lot in my pursuit. Your post demonstrated exactly my problem.
Silvio: Talk about breakin’ it on down! Thanks a lot. I’ll keep this in mind.
Satan is right (I wish he’d find a differerent nick, I have qualms about agreeing with the sworn enemy of God).
I’m personally partial to the Jerusalem Bible, which is a Catholic translation that manages to walk the fine line between poetry (which the King James Version can’t be beat for) and the authorizeed, “official” Catholic translations) Bear in mind that I am Catholic, and, therefore biased toward translations that include what the Protestants refer to as the “Apocrypha” or what the Catholic Church refers to as the “Deuterocanonicals” or the Second Canon. These books and chapters were deleted from the Hebrew Canon around 100 AD, allegedly because they were originally written in Greek,written by Greek speaking Jews, as opposed to Hebrew, the “Sacred” language of the Jews, in 100 A.D. As these scriptures had beehn part of the Alexendrian canon, which was predominately in use prior to the Christtion era, the deletion of which has been widely interpreted an an anti-Christian reaction.
General concesus, with which you may disagree, is that these books were deleted from the Christian Bible at the time of the Reformation because they contained passages that supported Catholic doctrines with which the Protestant “Reformers” disagreed.
Now, not wishing to offend any Jewish posters, who I consider to be my spiritual ancestors, and, therefore, worthy of my respect, I must say that I am partial to the Alexandrian Canon, and translations thereof, because I feel that they contain the complete text of the Bible.
I realize this is off the subject, but I had been unaware that what Protestants and Catholics know respectively as the Old Testament Apocrypha or the Deuterocanonical books had ever been part of the Jewish canon. zev (or cmkeller, or anyone else), do you know more about this? I’d always understood that they came along just a little too late to make it in to the canon.
BTW, does Judaism have a name for this particular collection of works?
To follow up on RT’s post, could someone identify the Deuterocanonical books? All my versions of the (Christian) Bible are from my Catholic school and college days, so I wonder what portions I’m reading are condemning my soul to hell (like it needs help).
Sua
Well, as zev says, there are numerous Jewish English translations, of the “Old” Testament. He’s understandably hesitant to name one, but I’ll throw out a few publishers whose translation won’t (IMHO) steer you wrong:
[ul][li]Stone Edition Chumash (just the five books of Moses) and Stone Edition Tanakh, Artscroll Publishing[/li][li]The Living Torah (by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, a very accomplished scholar in both secular and religious subjects) and the Living Nakh (3 volumes), Moznayim publishing[/li][li]The Koren Publishing edition of the Tanakh (I think it’s called the Jerusalem Bible, but you shouldn’t confuse it with the one mentioned by agisofia[/li][li]Judaica Press series (although this one has many volumes, so a full set would be more expensive than any of the others).[/li][/ul]
This is not to cast aspersions on other translations, I’m merely saying that these have served me the best.
RTFirefly:
Would these be books like “Maccabees”? I guess “apocrypha” is as good a name for them as any; I’m not aware of any standing they might have religiously. As far as I know, they’re considered simple historical works.
For the record, the Jewish canon contains:
Torah: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy
Prophets: Joshua, Judges, Samuel (I & II), Kings (I & II), Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the Twelve Minor Prophets (Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakuk, Zephanaiah, Haggai, Zachariah, Malachi)
Holy writings: Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Daniel, Ezra-Nehemiah (technically considered one book), Chronicles (I & II), Ruth, Esther, Song of Songs, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes
Any other books are not part of the Jewish religious canon.
Chaim Mattis Keller
I’d add to Chaim’s list:
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Jewish Publication Society has a very nice modern translation
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Fox’s recent translation of TORAH takes a new approach, trying to be true to the original Hebrew text. For example, the Hebrew text often emphasizes verbs or adjectives by repeating them. This usually gets translated as “very” or some such: “He looked and lo! she was very beautiful.” Fox translates the Hebrew almost literally: “He looked, yes looked, and she was beautiful, yes beautiful.” I think that this is probably the “most true” translation, although not necessarily the easiest reading.
On Apocrypha, I haven’t checked a list so I’m working from memory, but I believe that all the books of the Hebrew Bible are included in the Christian Old Testament. However, there are books in the Christian Old Testament (such as Maccabbees) that are not included in the Hebrew Bible. Then there are the Apocyrpha that are not included in either the Christian or the Hebrew Bibles.
So the progression is linear:
**Hebrew Bible**
|
| Add some books like Maccabbees
|
**Christian Old Testament**
|
| Add some books like Matthew, Luke, etc
|
**Christian Bible**
|
| Separately: some books not included in
| Christian Bible (Apocrypha)
|
**Christian Bible plus Apocrypha**
cmkeller and CKDextHavn:
Here’s a list of the Deuterocanonicals:
Tobit
Judith
The Additions to the Book of Esther (contained in the Greek version of Esther)
The Wisdom of Solomon
Ecclesiasticus, or the Wisdom of Jesus son of Sirach
Baruch
The Letter of Jeremiah
The Prayer of Azariah and the Song of the Three Jews
Susanna
Bel and the Dragon
1 Maccabees
2 Maccabees
1 Esdras
The Prayer of Manasseh
2 Esdras
According to one website, quoting the NRSV, these were all in the Septuagint, excepting 2 Esdras.
I’m aware that they aren’t part of the Jewish canon, and haven’t been for eons (if ever).
My question is, does their presence in the Septuagint mean they were considered canonical by some or all Jewish communities at one time? And if so, how did they ultimately wind up outside the canon in its final form?
Actually, RTFirefly, the answer is no, and the reason is as follows:
The only part of the Septuagint that Jews consider authoritative in any way is the translation of the first five books (the Torah). Any later translations don’t have any authority in Judaism. And, I should add, we don’t know for sure that the Septuagint that exists today on the Torah is the same one that the Jewish sages wrote.
Zev Steinhardt
OK, Zev, but that’s now.
What I’m asking is, did Alexandrian Jews in, say, the first century or two after the Septuagint was translated and/or written, consider everything in the Septuagint to be inherently canonical, or did they regard parts of it as canonical but not other parts?
RT: << What I’m asking is, did Alexandrian Jews in, say, the first century or two after the Septuagint was translated and/or written, consider everything in the Septuagint to be inherently canonical, or did they regard parts of it as canonical but not other parts? >>
It’s hard to simplify. And I’m going from memory, so don’t trust me on dates and such. Back in those early days, there were clearly a lot of different sects with slightly different “canons.” The Dead Sea Scrolls, for example, give us all the current canonical texts of the Hebrew Bible (IIRC, the book of Esther is the only exclusion), plus a few texts that the Dead Sea Sect clearly thought were important but no one else did (and which were unknown until the finding of the Dead Sea scrolls in the late 1940s.)
((ASIDE: It should be noted that the Dead Sea texts do have a few very minor differences from the present-day canonical text; bits of grammar or a misplaced phrase here and there, presumably scribal errors. Nothing seriously different in concept or context.))
I don’t think that mainstream Judaism ever thought of the Septuagint as inherently canonical – it was a Greek translation of major texts. Modern-day scholars look to it as the oldest translation around, and they compare differences between the Septuagint and the modern-day canonical version, making sage observations on which is the more authentic, etc.
It is not unlikely that scribal errors would creep into some copies in a text of that length, and so tiny differences in versions would emerge over time. It was all hand-copied, remember. Various sects and local areas could have had copies that were slightly different from each other, and various sects and local areas might have accepted some texts that were not accepted by the adjacent sect or local area. There was a general uniformity, but there was not universal uniformity among Jewish communities.
The canonical (Masorite) text was formulated well into the Christian Era (I think 600 AD or so?) as an effort to freeze the texts, to set (by rabbinc decision) the authentic version for once and all, to eliminate any variants. The Masorite text, in fact, provided things like word counts, to help prevent scribal errors… and it is a safe assertion that the Hebrew text today is unchanged by so much as a letter from that first Masorite version. (Orthodox Jews would say that the text is unchanged from the time God gave it on Sinai, of course, and that ancient versions with minor variants like the Dead Sea Scrolls are simply in error.)
That help?
CKDextHavn:
I think your dating is a bit late. I’ve heard two versions of when the Jewish Canon was set: the traditional Jewish history says that it was set by the Men of the Great Assembly, at the beginning of the Second Temple Era (approximately 350 BCE), and secular historians seem to think it was set at Yavneh (or Jamnia, as they call it) by the School of Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai either late in the first century or early in the second century, CE.
It clearly couldn’t have been as late as 600 CE. The Talmud was completed in the early fifth century CE, and it contains a list of the official canon. This list comes from a quoted Rabbinic statement that is attributed, in the Talmud, to Rabbis from around 150-200 CE.
Chaim Mattis Keller