I’m not sure I follow you… I’m a French speaker living in Japan, my native tongue is French, not Japanese. Likewise if I have kids and we all speak French at home their native tongue will be French too, unless we speak Japanese also, in which case both will be.
Well, I was in a situation somewhat like yours just a few years ago, and Chinese changed my life. It’s not easy, no, but if you work hard and aren’t especially bad at languages or just, you know, dumb (maybe half of my western classmates were just hopeless from the start) it’s doable.And it does get a lot easier once you get past the brain-busting “oh my God this is impossible” phase. Plus, people wil think you’re smart. And you can laugh at people’s lame tattoos and t-shirts.
I have to agree that French and German are basically a waste of time unless you have some special need. I don’t know why we have those in every high school when we can’t study a HUGE language like Mandarin until college.
I’ve always thought languages like Dutch and Swedish would be the the most valuable skills to have. Rich nations whose languages are not widely studied.
and to sickboy51, don’t worry about your English. It’s good enough.
Luckily the US Army has tabulated the relative difficulties of most major languages for native English speakers (scroll down to the bottom of the page for the table).
The Defense Language Institute groups languages into 4 classes of difficulty based on the time it takes to gain a level of spoken proficiency. The Romance languages and non-German Germanic languages are mosty in the easiest category, with the majority of East-European, African and Asian languages in the second and third. The four most difficult are allegedly Arabic, Chinese, Japanese and Korean.
If Chinese and Japanese are that hard in purely spoken terms (and I understand the tonal system in Chinese is evil incarnate for Westerners), how much harder is the writing system going to be? It takes Japanese children several years to learn how to read and write kanji, so for a Westerner, it’s going to be far worse.
On a personal level, I’d say that proficiency depends on what sort of mind you have. Some languages are difficult primarily because of their complex but regular case/gender/declension system, like Latin and German: if you have a logical mind you can do better at them. Other languages simply require you to learn a vast amount of irregularities and idioms, and become purely memory exercises.
Well, there’s also the matter of whether or not you care to write in Japanese or Chinese. In Japanese you can survive in entirely on hiragana if you have to, which I had down in one slack-off term in high school. Chinese has no such crutch, but it also basically isn’t that important to be able to write by hand. Typing it is enough for me in general, and I can always whip out the electronic dictionary if I need to show someone a character. Yes, to be fully literate I’d need to learn to write, but I’m not that worried about it right now. And reading isn’t actually all that hard if you aren’t being drilled to write every character you learn.
Ha! At least our chairs don’t have genders. Words with genders are madness.
In all seriousness (as much as I can muster, anyway), I’ve heard that once you learn one language, it’s easier to pick up another one. Like since I studied French, it’d be easier for me to pick up Spanish.
Hahaha, just my luck that Arabic would be The Hardest Language In the World since I was thinking about thinking about looking into it.
Space Vampire, I speak as someone who has studied two of the “hard” languages: Japanese and Mandarin.
My soon-to-be Arab brother in law jokingly told me: “If I marry your sister, you’d better learn to speak Arabic!”
It was a joke, but still, I bought an intro to Arabic text book out of curiosity. After having read a few chapters, I had this fealing of standing in front of Mount Everest - I was almost physically dizzy.
I’ve only had a brief peek under the hood, but there is no doubt in my mind that reaching any sort of proficiency in Arabic is a formidable task indeed. Even more so than for Chinese and Japanese, which have at least some easy aspects for English speakers.
[sub][bragging]I may very well be the only doper who owns an intro to Arabic textbook… written in Japanese![/bragging][/sub]
Japanese or Arabic.
Finding Arabic classes is a challenge, depending on where you live.
I took Japanese classes; they were fun.
I have Arabic tapes, and the phrases aren’t particularly difficult. I don’t know much about the real grammar, though.
I love you people. Even though I’m still very lost as to which language to learn, it will probably be either Spanish or Chinese. I just wish I could think of some instances where I could use both of those languages. Spanish would be useful in the U.S., Spain, and Latin/South America, but I don’t really think any of those places have large amounts of Chinese speakers. Either way, hopefully I’ll manage to get out of the U.S. before it completes its cataclysmic fall.
Chinese?
Spanish?
Chinese?
Spanish?
Oy…
Again, thanks.
FWIW, Brazil has a large Chinese population.
So, there you go!
GrimGrin, I know you have really no idea what direction your life may take, but have you picked a major? If you have, that might help you decide on a language. For example, German used to be very important for chemistry students, because so much important work was published in that language (this example may be outdated). If you want to do public health or social work in the US, Spanish may be best. If you want to study English literature, you’ll want French and Latin for sure, and maybe Italian and ancient Greek. And so on…your professors may be able to help, especially older professors.
Over the years I’ve studied Latin, Spanish, German, French, Japanese, and several medieval dialects. I was glad to have them all and wish I had more. The only one I’m fairly comfortable in now is French, thanks to a year in France. But from repeated exposure to various languages, I now understand English–its history, its literature, its grammar, and its possibilites–much better than I would otherwise. I think that’s a worthy end in itself.
Brazil speaks Portuguese, though…
Yes but from what I’ve heard, they’re obsessed with all things French.
Any Brazilians on board that can confirm/deny this?
Well, out of those two the obvious choice for most people is going to be Spanish. Compared to Chinese it’s a total piece of cake, more useful in most parts of the US, and good in a whole lot of countries down south.
On the other hand, Chinese has some prestige, is tipped to be The Next Big Thing, and might lead you somewhere you didn’t expect if you’re going in with no direction. If you have to take a couple years of a language like I did, though, if you take Chinese you should prepare yourself to work fairly hard on it for those two years, only to feel like you still know nothing when you’re done. Unless you already have some interest in Chinese culture, I would probably have to recommend Spanish.
Space Vamp kinda nailed it. How oh how I wish I had taken spanish in High School. 25 years later I would still remember basic conversations and have a 500-1000 word vocab. But no, I took French, did poorly and if my pathetic experience in France is anything to go by, probably have a vocab of about 50 words.
Chinese will change your life if you are serious about studying it, but generally speaking you need about 2 years of serious university level plus a year in country to be able to just hang. For business or really getting reasonably good at Mandarin, you need much more time. There just is no easy way to learn the characters, and with very rare exceptions you have to master several thousand characters to get a good grounding in the language. More if you really want to master Mandarin.
My life and experiences have widened beyond most people’s imagination because I took Mandarin in University. I will point out not to brag but just to show what you’re up against, out of the 80 people that started first year Mandarin, I was the only one to do the 4th year and earn a language degree. And no one had done that for several years before or after me at the University of California, Davis. Now Mandarin is a lot more popular. The point is that you’ve got to be dedicated/obsessed with the language for many long years before you get to a decent level. In Spanish, an American that works at it diligently can probably reach an equivalent level in 2 years.
good luck
Chinese is grammatically simple, has no tenses, and severl thousand characters goes a long long way (as opposed to English, where several thousand words barely scratches the surface).
The difficult parts are the tonal inflections and the ideographic nature of the characters.
By the way- this is more than likely a non-issue (and also maybe obvious, but then I’m so far off doing my Chinese thing that I forget that most people know nothing about it at all) but if you decide on Chinese, don’t somehow accidentally sign up for Cantonese as it is significantly harder than Mandarin. I have confidence that most people can persevere with Mandarin if they put in the time and effort, but supposedly even fewer people get very far with Cantonese.
I’m not really a canto speaker, but I don’t think it’s significantly harder than Mandarin. One has to study it as opposed to thinking you can pick it up. There are more tones, but the same holds true for Thai.
Long story short, if you’re studying pretty much any Asian language, you need to be a diligent student for a long time
Not just that. A number of spoken sounds have no corresponding characters.
Actually, that’s not quite true. It is just that those characters are very obscure and not in current use that scholars need to dig them up.