…except it isn’t just illegal immigrants who are getting targeted by ICE. It isn’t just illegal immigrants who are being harrased and racially abused based on nothing but the colour of their skin. Illegal immigrants aren’t the target of this regimes latest Green Card changes. Seeking asylum isn’t illegal: but that hasn’t stopped this administration from seperating parents from children, from detaining people in standing-room only cells for weeks and not letting them shower. When the Walmart shooter went down to El Paso he didn’t only shoot illegal immigrants. He targeted and shot brown people.
You don’t view Trump brand nationalism and white supremacists as being a distinction with very little difference? One feeds the other. White supremacists certainly think Trump is on their side.
“A lot of criminals share your skin color, so we’re going to treat you like a criminal,” is also kind of how racism works.
I’m not sure I understand what you think the threat is. Even if we take everything you wrote as true, the “silent cheers” don’t harm anyone. And if, for all their effort to “weaponize” the internet, they’ve only managed to recruit a handful of people willing to take violent action for their cause, it seems like a pretty mild threat, less dangerous than bee stings or lightning strikes. Could you elaborate further on what you see as the threat?
…63 million is your figure: it isn’t mine.
It isn’t just the shootings.
I don’t think you really do.
A strawman that has nothing to do with anything I’ve said.
I said thousands, not millions.
I have family that live in Christchurch. That lived very close to Masjid Al Noor. I’m guessing that you don’t don’t have family there and your family wouldn’t be targets of such an attack…unlike my family.
Reality check: this isn’t a uniquely American problem.
America was founded on white supremacy. Your constitution was written by and for white people. US white supremacy has been killing black and brown people and has been “keeping them in their place” since your nation was founded.
There isn’t a material difference between ‘white supremacy’ and ‘white nationalism.’ White nationalism is just what white supremacists have started calling themselves to make them sound less racist. Its propaganda. And it appears you have fallen for it.
I’m pretty sure the “63 million” number came from the (approximate) number of votes President Trump received in 2016. Most of those were from Republicans / independents, but some Democrats voted for him too.
I don’t. Basically, I see Trump as a populist asshole who is riding the wave of fear and anger about illegals coming into the country and taking advantage of us poor Americans. My WAG is he doesn’t give a shit one way or the other.
Does his actions and what he says feed some small percentage of white asshole losers? Absolutely. We saw that with the El Paso shooter. But what we are also seeing is a lot of folks who are shocked and angry at that, and we are also seeing said white racist asshole in prison…and probably destined to be there for the rest of his life.
Do white supremacist think Trump is on their side? Absolutely they do. They see a government finally taking action against this huge growing threat that they perceive…in the same way the OP perceives white supremacy as this huge, existential threat. But Trump is no more on their side than he is on the side of the blue collar workers who thought he was going to bring back those good, high paying high benefit low skill manufacturing jobs, or any of the other groups he rides like an old lathered pony. Trump is on Trump’s side.
I agree that what he does and says eggs on white supremacist assholes like this idiot in El Paso. Definitely. He is bringing the crazies out of the wood work. But, crazy is out there regardless. There is always some crazy asshole that for one reason or another decides to blow up a marathon, or shoot up a concert, or shoot up a church, or walk into Walmart to shoot hispanics. What I don’t see is millions of folks rising up to proclaim that this guy was right, or to join in the hunt for hispanics or blacks or asians or whatever.
Now, nationalism…THAT has been an issue in the US for a while. I’ve seen it on the rise since even before 9/11, but definitely since then. And yeah, I think that is definitely an ‘ideological threat’ to the US. Perhaps not to American lives, but definitely to America. White supremacists though? To me, those are mainly fringe assholes who’s day has come and gone and who are still trying to hold on and recapture their lost world where only white folks (and only SOME kinds of white folks) were on top. It ain’t going to happen.
I think it had something to do with it.
My issue with that statement is that, in the US at least, this is a distinction without much difference. The Nationalism in the US is predominantly white supremacist–nonwhite Americans tend to be excluded. All you seem to be saying is that only some white supremacists are dangerous.
Now if you want to argue that “violent white supremacists” aren’t the threat, then I’m with you. While what happens with them is horrible, they at least are condemned. It’s the white supremacy that tries to hide as patriotism or other such stuff that is the problem. It is the ballot box where the threat is.
I’d argue the largest thread from white supremacy is from our police–not because they are violent white supremacists, but because there is white supremacy built into the system, hence more black people being shot and killed, and more black people being arrested and convicted for the same crimes.
I am, of course, using the extended definition of white supremacy, not the one that is limited to the KKK and Nazis. It is any racism by white people against nonwhite people. That is the one the OP said they were using. I abhor semantic arguments.
(And, yes, I did use nonwhite, rather than POC. I feel that may be a term that would get in the way in this case. In this case, it is specifically the fact that they are “not white” that is relevant. If you’d rather, feel free to replace it, and don’t get into a semantic argument over whether I used the right word.)
What is the “threat” there? President Trump has been in office for 2.5 years and the world spins on. The economy is still chugging along, babies are still being born, elections are still being held, lives are continuing onward, etc. If he wins re-election, what happens that’s a “threat”? Is China going to nuke us on 11/3/2020 if we don’t elect the dem? Is the Yellowstone super volcano going to erupt? What’s the “threat” at the ballot box?
…that person who “silently cheers” the death of a brown person is also the person who won’t hire a brown person, won’t give a job to a black person, is also the policeman who arrests that guy because of the colour of their skin and gives him a couple of punches in the face because thats just what people who silently cheer the death of a brown person does.
The Trump’s victory in America, the Brexit vote, the Morrison win in Australia, Bolsonaro’s win in Brazil. This isn’t just about the shootings. I don’t know how many times I have to say that.
Its about the world-wide rise of authoritarianism. In America its being fueled by white supremacy.
I’m trying to be as inoffensive as I can here, so bear with me. Basically, this is white people propaganda and is VERY offensive. Nationalism is all about being white in America? Have you never been to a parade with people other than white Americans waving flags?? 
Have you never been to a ball game and seen non-whites standing for the national anthem? Never seen non-whites with a flag at their house?
Americans, regardless of race or religions, are highly nationalistic, and thinking that it’s only whites is really a disconnect I can’t even fathom. I know that in my own family (both the majority Democrats as well as the Republicans) there are all sorts of symbols of patriotism and US fervor. And I seriously doubt that I’m in the one hispanic family in the country, or one minority family who feels that way or does such things.
So, nationalism isn’t just something for whites only. Seriously…you need to really think about this stuff before saying it. I think immigrants are MORE fervently American and nationalistic in many ways than white folks who’s families have been here for centuries.
None of those things are a new development under the Trump administration. There were some racist assholes that wouldn’t hire a brown person while Clinton was in office. Unequal arrest rates were present during the Bush administration (both). Policemen used excessive force in arresting PoC during the Obama administration. And the country muddled on anyways. When we find someone breaking the relevant laws, we try to deal with that through our legal system, imperfect as it is. I don’t understand why you think those things are a “threat” now. They’ll almost certainly continue on for the remainder of President Trump’s administration and on into the next one, and the one after that, and the one after that.
Thank you for this post. I had similar thoughts, but you phrased it much better than I could, and coming from you it will almost certainly be better-received than if I’d said it.
Exactly what this thread is about, further enabling and encouraging white supremacy.
A large fraction of those 63 million can be forgiven (in my mind) for not really understanding that Trump was serious when he espoused his racial hatred. They can be forgiven for being more concerned about making rent or putting food on the table than some inappropriate remarks, and he did tell some pretty enticing lies to them. If I held them all morally accountable, I’d have to also consider someone who gets swindled by a used car salesman to also be morally accountable.
Those who still support him, and will vote for him in 202 do know that he was serious, do know that he is encouraging white supremacy, and so if they are at the least, tacitly approving of his racist rhetoric and actions.
…I never claimed they were.
You made the statement " Even if we take everything you wrote as true, the “silent cheers” don’t harm anyone." I addressed that statement. You “don’t understand” because you’ve mischaracterized the intent of my response.
There is a difference between loving your country and being patriotic, and Nationalism.
One of the key aspects of Nationalism is maintaining a single national identity based on shared social characteristics such as culture, language, religion, politics, and belief in a shared singular history.
Now, you may be assuming that when one talks about Nationalism, they are referring to civic, rather than ethnic Nationalism, and in a vacuum, that’s a reasonable distinction. In this thread, it is obvious that what is being referred to is the more common form of ethnic Nationalism.
Now, with that said, if you put the word “ethnic” in front of the uses of Nationalism, would you stick by what you said?
…is this really what you meant when you referenced nationalism in this post? You genuinely believe that “non-whites standing for the national anthem” is a bigger threat to America than white supremacy?
Nationalism (as you appear to interpret it) is not generally regarded to be a threat. Nationalismas generally defined should be regarded as a threat. White nationalism is another thing all together, and in the context of this conversation was what both myself and Big T thought you were talking about.
True, but they encourage others who have yet to spring into action.
My own opinion is that this lone wolf terrorism, while difficult to control and inevitably resulting in scores of dead and injured, isn’t the worst form of white supremacy violence that we could see.
What worries is the day when “White Christian Nationalism” or “White Nationalism” becomes more than just a phrase to describe the growing list of radical groups or fringe voters or even vocal Trump supporters. All of that is disturbing, but that’s not the dark turn that I fear. That dark turn would be the time when we see an actual white nationalist movement that involves waves of white nationalist activists mainstreaming white nationhood to the degree that establishing white colonies out in, say, Oregon, Idaho, Nevada, or hell, even New Hampshire, actually begins to take shape, with white nationalist neighborhoods, white nationalist churches, white nationalist shopping malls, white nationalist militias operating as de facto local security forces. That sounds nutter, but I think that’s a very real possibility in the not-so-distant future, particularly if the current and future administrations succeed in gutting the civil rights divisions in the FBI and DoJ.
You think the only thing preventing that today is the DoJ’s civil rights division? Not a general lack of interest for most people in “establishing white colonies”? In other words, if it were legalized tomorrow, how many Americans do you think with move to Oregon to establish white colonies? Do you think it would be popular enough to be something more than a minor footnote along the lines of the Free State Project?