White Wolf vs. Underworld

Cafe Society
1

I haven’t seen this posted yet; I’m interested in getting folks’ impressions. I believe that since this is a press release, it can be quoted without copyright concerns; nonetheless, since it’s a copyright lawsuit, I’ll play it safe :slight_smile:

http://www.white-wolf.com/News/underworldrelease.html:

Some of the points of similarity are listed on this pdf:

Questions:
-Has anyone read Ms. Collins’s book in question? If so, do these similarities sound too close?
-Has anyone seen this movie? Similarities?
-Attorneys of the Board: does this lawsuit stand a chance in hell?

I used to play WW games, but I’ve never read the novel or seen the book. Many of the similarities listed seem laughably stupid to me (WW vampires aren’t killed by wood; the werewolves in Underworld don’t fight the vampires using wood), whereas others seem eyebrow-raising (vampire-werewolf crossbreeds are referred to as “abominations” in both). And the similarities to Collins’s book are even more suspicious.

Daniel

2

Well, as soon as I saw the trailer for the movie, I instantly thought about White Wolf’s World of Darkness. I mean, who else has both vampires and werewolves living in the modern world?

3

Nancy Collins, apparently :slight_smile:

As does Howling V, and Abbott and Costello.

Daniel

4

Difficult to tell how much merit the suit has without looking at the source materials. But a lot of the points above look like part of the whole vampire Zeigeist. Hard to sue for copyright infringement when you’re not being all that creative yourself.

Movie vampires have always been strong and fast, and often capable of disappearing.   The notion of older vampires being stronger and controlling the vampires they "sired" is practically canon.

So if this is all they’ve got, it looks like a pretty weak case.

5

I haven’t read the original book but I used to play White Wolf games a while back. What does this mean? Nothing, I’m hardly an authority on this kind of thing but since this is the Cafe I don’t mind putting in my 2 cents. White Wolf products themselves are themselves so derivitive I’m not so sure they really have a case. Looking over their list of “similiarities” between WW and Underworld I’m also struck by how similiar it is to a lot of other vampire type books, movies, and video games.

What they’re saying is that Underworld directly copies not just “Love of Monsters” but also the World of Darkness in general. All the examples of infringment Daniel posted are things that I have seen in previous Vampire type stories released before the first edition of Vampire: The Masqurade (RPG).

[ul]
[li]Vampires and Werewolves at war was the focus of a episode of The Real Ghostbusters a saturday morning cartoon. That same episode also showed several vamps and werewolves infecting one another to produce Werevamps? [/li][li]Dracula was the oldest vamp in his castle and certainly held sway over his younger “brides.” [/li][li]Most vampire movies/books I’ve read depict them as being far stronger then men, able faster then mortal men, are unfazed by blows that would kill a mortal man, and have an assortment of strange powers. [/li][li] White Wolf vampires aren’t killed by wood…neither are Rice’s vampires so far as I know. [/li][/ul]

Some of their complains are just outrageously stupid. White Wolf complains that in Underworld the werewolves can be killed by silver, both sides use teeth and claws to kill one another, both sides use guns and other weapons against one another,

In defense of White Wolf there are enough similiarities that make me raise my eyebrow a bit. I do think it is entirely possible that someone came up with a similiar story to that of Love of Monsters seeing as how they’re all using the same derivitive work. However I’m not a lawyer so maybe I’ve got all this wrong.

Marc

6

Laurell Hamilton’s “Anita Blake” novels.
Tanya Huff’s “Blood…” novels.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

And, assuming we can define “modern” to mean “contemporary to the release of the material”, then add:

Dark Shadows.
The Universal “Monster Rally” movies of the '40s, starting with House of Frankenstein.

And, while I don’t have a cite, I wouldn’t be surprised if at least one long forgotten pulp writer put them together even earlier. Vampires and werewolves co-existing just isn’t that original an idea. And once you put them together, having them as antagonists seems like a pretty natural thing to do. The alternative would be to have them as good buddies, and where’s the fun in that? :slight_smile:

Nancy Collins herself may be on firmer ground, assuming she can prove that the film appropriates some of her specific plot ideas (I haven’t read the book in question). Some of the specifics of how they deal with vampire society (things like the Old World and New World divide, for example), might also point to borrowing.

But then, I’m also not a lawyer. How it’ll play out in court, I don’t know.

7

This touches on an aspect of Underworld I’ve been wondering about.

In the world of the Real Ghostbusters-

Lycanthropy(including werewolves, and werechickens OTTOMH) is an infectious condition. It is transmitted by bite. An individual may be born a lycanthrope or become one through infection. A vampire bitten by a lycanthrope retains their vampiric nature but becomes a lycanthrope as well.

Vampirism is an infectious condition. A single bite can transorm an individual into a vampire in seconds. A werewolf bitten by a vampire will retain their lycanthropic nature but becomes a vampire as well. All the werewolves of Lupusville were transformed in this manner. This implies that any werewolf infected with vampirism will survive and transform in this manner.

In White Wolf’s World Of Darkness.

Lycanthropy is purely hereditary. It is in no way infectious. (Barring the Skinwalker tribe and the Ritual Of Sacred Rebirth, which are special exceptions and involve specially crafted magic) A human being can never become a werewolf. A vampire bitten by a werewolf does not become a werewolf.

Vampirism is transmittable but not infectious. In order to become a vampire all the blood must be drained from an indivual, they must then be fed the blood of a vampire. Simply biting an indivual does not transform them into a vampire. Feeding from an individual does not transform them. Simply biting a werewolf will not transform them. The above procedure must be followed. If this is done (system left out for convenience of those who aren’t WW geeks like some of us), the likely outcome is that the werewolf will simply die. Only on very, very rare occasions (OTTOMH-one of the Nictucku is an Abomination, and a member of the True Hand is an abomination. IIRC Samuel Haight may have also gone on to become an abomination.) does the werewolf survive and gain a vampiric nature.

So, what are the rules in Underworld?

IMO-while some points of the suit are not valid, many are. Even if no infringement was intended, there are too many similarities between the two. Sony should have made changes in order to avoid confusion and legal action. While there were similarities between Buffy The Vampire Slayer(method of transformation into vampire, Drusila’s use of Protean claws fer instance), there were many significant differences(stakes not only kill Buffy vamps, they cause them to crumble to dust. Buffy vamps have no souls. All Buffy vamps are evil. Vamps have no formal organization such as the Sabbat or Camarilla. There is no Jyhad. Buffy vamps may not enter a home unless invited. Buffy vamps have no reflections.)