My daughter spent two years in Namibia with the Peace Corps. There didn’t seem to be much discrimination at all.
Sam Nujoma, the first president after independence, did something very clever: He declared English as the official language. Very few Namibians were native English speakers (Afrikaans, German, and various African languages were commonly spoken), but by choosing it, it meant that no ethnic group would have an advantage (It being the language of international commerce was also a part of it).
When she was there, the Boers – who ran things under apartheid – were in no way disadvantaged and kept the own traditions (Obviously excepting apartheid).
The Nazi government stole millions of dollars of treasure from the Jews they kidnapped and murdered. Did the Nazi government own that treasure? They often gave that treasure to individual party members. If a Nazi officer had a painting that belonged to a murdered Jew, and after the war the Jew’s children demanded the painting back, do you insist that the Nazi officer’s property rights be protected? What if it’s sixty years later, and the Jew’s grandchildren demand the painting back from the Nazi officer’s grandchildren?
Stolen property is not rightfully owned property, and the thief cannot rightfully transfer its ownership to another.
I haven’t made a firm decision on this issue. It does seem like one injustice is being used to cancel an old injustice. I understood there are special circumstances in SA. A lot of people were exploited. Buying land and giving it back to the native population may be the right choice.
I only posted to answer the original question. The ruling black majority elects the ANC. The white minority has to be facing a lot of anger. There would be discrimination. Just like there was discrimination against blacks under the old colonial government.
People don’t forget a 100 years of oppression. It’ll take a long time for old wounds to heal. South Africa has avoided civil war and that’s saved a lot of lives
There’s nothing unjust about taking stolen property away … if that even was happening, which, I think bears repeating, you have absolutely failed to show.
Blacks, in general, do not discriminate against Whites in South Africa. Angry cussing in a parking lot, the only concrete example given in this thread, is not discrimination. And nonexistent land seizures definitely aren’t.
Takes a lot longer when the people who were doing the oppressing get to hold on to all they’ve stolen while the people they oppressed starve on the streets…
This seems reminiscent to me of the discussions of land reform that accompanied the overthrow of feudalism is some European countries, and also the end of oligarchic dictatorships in Latin America. Nothing to do with race, simply that some group ended up with all the land, and others had nothing. (IIRC, wasn’t that the concept of Sherman’s “forty acres and a mule” too?) How that one group ended up with most of the land probably added to the impetus to redistribute. As I recall, the large farms of Zimbabwe or South Africa are not that different than the southern USA plantations that somehow replaced Cherokee land.
Not every country got away with their land consolidation as cleanly as the Lords of highland Scotland did… some still have to answer for it.
I remember watching the end of apartheid and Nelson Mandela taking over on tv and I knew a teacher that was from there and I asked him if everything was equal now and he said no it would take 20-40 years for it to be equal and I asked how would you know when it happened ? and he said when the ANC nominated a white candidate and they win … meaning the two sides could come together with out the past getting in the way
The problem with that is that these “impoverished people” are very unlikely to have the knowledge & skills to run a productive farm. So they will just fail to maintain the land properly, and will eventually go broke too, probably sooner than the original owners (who likely had generations of farming experience).
This is similar to what happened in Zimbabwe, where land went to untrained & corrupt people, who failed to produce the needed food crops, and damaged the soil in doing so.
Anybody who thinks modern farming is so simple that untrained people can just do it if given the land really doesn’t understand farming!
As a White South African, I agree with @MrDibble that there is zero discrimination against Whites in South Africa, and very little (if any) anger in everyday life.
Americans often try to understand South Africa by analogy with race relations in America, but it’s a false analogy. There are many differences.
The ANC has never been an entirely Black party. There have always been White, Coloured, and Indian members in the party… and in the Cabinet since 1994.
I’m relieved to learn things are better in South Africa. It was a mistake for me to apply the social problems we have in the US to another country. I was heavily influenced by the news in the 1980"s when Apartheid was often a featured story.
It’s very encouraging to learn the ANC is an inclusive political party. It’s so important that people find ways to set aside differences. Work together for a better future for the next generation.
It cannot be done if the conversations center the oppressors feelings and experiences at the expense of restorative justice to oppressed.
Rather than focusing on the feelings of “injustice” when reclaiming land, consider the feelings of the robbed as they pass what was once their family’s land and know it was stolen from them.
Yes, Liberia is the only country I can think of that could be said to discriminate against whites, because it was established as a country for Blacks. Citizenship in Liberia requires “Negro” descent, which affects the Lebanese population living there. But they seem to be doing well as non-citizens, possibly better than the actual citizens.
Mr Ezzad claims that 60% of Liberia’s economy is in Lebanese hands. His boast is probably too high—no accurate figures are available—but it certainly a sizeable chunk. […] Liberia’s Lebanese are unable to buy property and are banned from 26 industries, but simultaneous patronage by officials is common. “I budget for bribes,” admits a Lebanese restaurateur. “Anyone wanting to do business here does.”
I found… one white person complaining about it. Note that she does not complain of any harassment or personal racism, such as the OP asks for.
To be fair, the constitution requiring “Negro descent” was probably meant in the days of colonialism to exclude European powers from imposing a white government on the country - much as the presidential “natural born citizen” requirement applies for the USA, to prevent the Europeans from imposing a foreign monarch - as much as it could.