The plane hitting the Tower is the same as jerking the string. It’s not moving the mass of the building, only the mass of the facade where contact is made.
Even the facade one floor above or below is not involved. The core is not involved in the initial contact.
When you go home tonight, drive as fast as you can into your garage door. Do you destroy the door or push the house off the foundation?
Oh, please start another thread on the topic. Please!
But not until we’ve fully flushed out the 9/11 subject.
Real car or holographic car?
I have. Frankly I have yet to encounter a CTer online or in person who wasn’t the epitome of Dunnigan-Kruger in action.
I haven’t encountered a single one who was actually doing something about what they saw as an injustice beyond whining on message boards or holding up signs at ground zero or some useless crap. None of them actually were doing any real activism. And if they were they were just embarassing others:
Often their limited effortswere detrimental. I’ve seen 9/11 truthers told to leave peace & protest marches because they made the marchers look bad as well as idiotic.
But you all think you are the heroes! you all thought you are/were going to be part of the “COMING REVOLUSHION!!!” and would be the founding fathers of the new order that saw through it all before the rest of you sheeple. Once they got started talking you realized all CTers wanted to do was be little future zampfpolit selectively executing the people who dared counter their silly claims in online forums. Let us recall that the leaders of the truther movement, not some rando hothead truther, were calling for the death of the more prominent 9/11 debunkers. The movement is and was poison.
I’ve seen the truther movement get dumber and dumber over time. As time went on the obvious standouts who ‘started’ the movement were well established so to make a name for yourself in the movement you had to make even crazier claims than the last guy. This lead to silliness like Space Beams, VicSims, Holographic planes, and even worse. This syndrome effects almost all conspriacy circles from the Moon Landing Hoaxers to Sandy Hook ‘truthers’ to Birthers. The CTers spout this BS almost hourly without any concners for the victims that they are hurting with their BS.
Conspriacy theores are a cancer.
Real car. Absolutely.
Though he’ll need a holographic Doctor after.
a stack of Jenga blocks is nothing like a skyscraper
in addition to the fact that you can not guarantee total destruction of any given stack by messing with the top 15%
also, the fact is that the material from the upper mass could not have maintained itself as a coherent mass, but became a mass of disconnected rubble further down in the event, therefore the rubble had the freedom to exit out the side of the building and therefore deprive the “piledriver” of mass and stop the action.
No, it’s not except as a visual demonstration that if you remove structural support it will fall over.
No, you pulled that number out of your ass. If you take away enough structural support from a building or any other structure it’s going to collapse. Just get a bit of it moving downward and the whole things is going to come down because of the amount of mass being balanced by those supports.
No. Did you watch the video?
So much for your controlled demolition crap.
Things that are falling downward don’t move sideways unless they are acted on by some force other than gravity, even if there is a path available.
Think about it - if I crash my car head-on into something, I don’t fly out the side window even if it is open.
The material from above the point of impact doesn’t have to maintain itself as a coherent mass - it falls downward, breaks the floor below, the rubble from the floor below falls downward and smashes the floors below, and so on.
Regards,
Shodan
Or uncontrolled demolition, for that matter.
not accounting for the resistance that would be in the floor below
upon encountering resistance, stuff takes a different path
that is the path of least resistance. fact is that a mass of rubble
falling on the remaining floors of the skyscraper would most likely
form a cone shaped mound on top of the lower floors and thereby
having the falling stuff roll off and down the sides.
We’re still trying to teach Jay_Jay physics, math, engineering and logic.
He’s resisted every single attempt for 15 pages now and it doesn’t seem like he’s interested in accepting anything that doesn’t fit his original opinions on the subject of 9/11.
I’d much rather learn the real drivers behind his belief system. Who is ultimately responsible for these events, their motives and what he thinks ought to be done about it?
4500 tons per floor x 15 floors=67,500 tons on the move. Each succeeding floor adds it’s mass.
Remember, the supports are for static loads, not a dynamic spike. In case you didn’t notice, some debris was ejected though the major mass stayed centered. This is obvious from the fact that the Towers fell mostly in their own footprint.
What bullshit theory do you have that accounts for the fall?
Whoa whoa whoa. Earlier in the thread, you were asking why there weren’t any eyewitnesses. Now you’re saying that the eyewitnesses are lying? So video evidence isn’t good enough, eyewitness testimony isn’t good enough… What would convince you?
Shouldn’t you be threatening a pizza parlor with a gun or something?
Also a bit of a stretch: millions of eyewitnesses lying and dozens of camera feeds being faked in real time in 2001.
You know, you keep arguing based on physics, but you haven’t actually done much physics.
How about this. You think that physics are the knock-down, drag-out argument that proves that no plane hit WTC2? Model it. Put in the work to reconstruct WTC2 (or at least the relevant couple of floors of it) in a physics engine. There are plenty of physics engines publicly available; FreeCAD with DesignSPHysics might be a good place to start. Take a 3D model of a 767 (that’s easy to get), roughly map out the physics and hardness of the relative materials, and simulate throwing the plane at the building. Do your homework.
Right now, all you’ve offered is, “No way would the plane interact like this”. But how many planes crashing into buildings have you actually seen? You seem to think the answer is “zero”, so really, you have no frame of reference. You’re trying to intuit how these two objects would interact, not actually work it out. And, as everyone else keeps pointing out, that’s nonsense. Your intuitions will not work here because you have no frame of reference. And if all you have to go on are your intuitions… Well, we have a lot of evidence that your intuitions are wrong - videos, eyewitnesses, the black box from the plane, and more. So either do the homework and prove the point you’re trying to make, or just admit that you have nothing to work with.
He doesn’t know anything, he was told what to believe. He was given orders to go out and proselytize.
Jay_Jay, the problem with your arguments is that you have not articulated clearly what your position is. Your arguments are all in the form of “this detail of the official story seems a bit off.” They add up to nothing.
You need to present a clear alternate hypothesis. And then explain why these little details fit your hypothesis better than the official story.
I prefer this prose:
“A little learning is a dangerous thing
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.
Fired at first sight with what the muse imparts,
In fearless youth we tempt the heights of arts
While from the bounded level of our mind
Short views we take nor see the lengths behind
But more advanced behold with strange surprise,
New distant scenes of endless science rise!”
-Alexander Pope
Not if the floors collapse under the weight of the debris, which is what happened. And especially not if they are sprayed with jet fuel and set on fire, weakening the steel supports, which then collapse. Downward, not sideways.
The debris didn’t have a chance to pile up and spill over the sides - the floors collapsed under the weight.
Regards,
Shodan
we were discussing the towers and it was WTC7 that had the fuel and aux generators.
It actually did exit the sides, even from the beginning. I linked to a video of the tower one collapse that shows a lot of shit going everywhere. But a lot of it stayed with the tower.
If you drop a ten story building on top of a 90 story building, the 90 story building will fail on the top floor. This is because buildings very rarely fall on top of other buildings, so they are generally not specced to handle those kind of loads. Even, if you drop a quarter of a ten story building onto a 90 story building, it will still fail, because buildings are not designed to handle non-static vertical loads (big stuff dropped on them).
Study architecture, engineering and principles of elegance/economy-of-substance. Pass the course with a C or better. Then come back and offer substantive debate.