who else hates DeBeers?

General Questions
#1

I gotta back up Phaedrus on the change-the-world thing. Didn’t at first, but

made me see his point. Of course, he didn’t single handedly change the world, but he had a heck of an influence on the thinking / attitude of a generation.

Sure sure sure, I’m only 30 and can’t speak from first hand knowledge, but I don’t think I’m far off in saying that pop music (pop isn’t quite the right word. Seems to put the Beatles in the same category as Ricky Martin. Well, for some people…) had some influence over the generation. Even if one thinks the music was just a reflection of current attitudes, there is some feedback that would carry on that attitude.

So yeah, as a founding member of one of the most influential groups of an era, I would say that he helped influence at least a generation, if not more. Maybe it would have been more appropriate to say “Sorry you feel his ideology wasn’t important. It [helped] change the world.”

#2

I knew this had to be a posting error. How could anyone hate DeBeers. I love 'em…and I’m not even from Chicago!

Elmer J. Fudd,
Millionaire.
I own a mansion and a yacht.

#3

I have NO idea why this topic is
labelled “Who Else Hates DeBeers?” Maybe somebody could fill me in.

Anyway. I find that it is often impossible to explain to somebody born after 1970 just how important the Beatles are to some of us. I suppose I should also say that it’s difficult to explain their significance to somebody who reached adulthood before 1950.

No, the Beatles weren’t prophets. But they did bring forth a message. I won’t get into the specifics, but I think that those who “get” the Beatles know what I’m talking about.

For those who DON’T “get” the Beatles, let me assure you that most of us Beatles fans don’t see them as “blessed” or “messiahs” or even (to warp an infamous statement), “more important than Jesus”.

I think that the “meaning” of pop music changed during the 1970’s. The Beatles (motivated by Bob Dylan’s criticism of John Lennon) wanted to make a statement. They came from a time when it was still possible that an artist with a catchy tune didn’t have to run the gauntlet of Big Business. (Of course, they DID have to fight against convention.)

Did the Beatles “change the world”, as the original post speculated about? I would have to say Yes. Not the ENTIRE world, but they reached a lot of souls. “All You Need is Love” sticks in our hearts, just as Jesus’ message that we should “Love Thy Neighbour” persists as a challenge.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They did good.

Afraid to fly? Hey, I’ve been there!

#4

Whoa, what the hell happened? Sorry about that. I tend to cutNpaste from Word (less spelling errors) but guess I found a new way to screw things up. Sorry. Here is what I originally intended to post, if it makes a difference.
[rant]DeBeers was mentioned in the Commercials I loathe thread, and I nearly spit bile all over my monitor (analogous to laughing/spitting soda). Ugh. I loathe DeBeers. As was mentioned in that thread, they have taken a not-so-rare gem and enslaved millions with it. This includes the countries / people they have coerced into providing the diamonds, the women they have tricked into believing there is a long tradition / history of diamond giving that goes beyond their own sleazy marketing campaign, and the men who are held to the ‘two months salary’ standards. [/rant]

What do the TM know about this? I have found surprisingly little on the net about DeBeers and their practices (most of what I know comes from long forgotten econ classes). Any good sites? What have you heard /what do you know about DeBeers? Do you find them as evil as I do? And if you do find out how contrived the diamond ring idea is, do you still want to buy / be bought one?

#5

Wait a minute. You say:

[ul][li]it’s spelled “The Beatles”, not DeBeers.[/li][li]While many of their songs can be called gems, which one are you referring to when you say the “not-so-rare” gem.[/li][li]And how was that song used to enslave millions?[/ul][/li]
Don’t forget, Ringo Starr is still alive, and he can come over and kick your butt if needed.

Quand les talons claquent, l’esprit se vide.
Maréchal Lyautey

#6

So that’s what “Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds” was all about!!! I thought it was about acid.

Elmer J. Fudd,
Millionaire.
I own a mansion and a yacht.

#7

Oh, I get it. The song you are mentioning is “Ob-la-di, ob-la-da”. Now I see what you mean. Oh, the humanity!

:wink:

Quand les talons claquent, l’esprit se vide.
Maréchal Lyautey

#8

O.K. is this a thread about diamonds or the Beatles because I can’t make heads or tails about what the hell you guys are talking about.

If it’s diamonds were talking (which is the only deBeers I know), then all I know is that they are the monopoly for the stone and the stuff comes almost entirely from South Africa. That being said, I have no idea how they price the stuff.

I spent only about one month’s salary on my wife’s ring, if anyone cares, and I think I prefer it that way since 1) I had to have money left to pay the rent and 2) I actually think (as does my wife) that bigger stones both look stupid, and invite a robbery.

Not to hijack this thread, but I keep seeing women walking around San Diego with $5000 + rocks on their hands, and I also notice that the bigger the rock, generally the more frail and snotty the woman. Hence, prime mugging material. Hell, if I was a junkie, I’d just beat the crap out of these women and take their rings to support my drug habit. It has to be a lot safer than robbing a liquor store, or even trying to mug a random guy, who at best has maybe a hundred bucks in his wallet.

#9

I have two different friends who are geologists.

Both have said in as many words, “The only reason that diamonds are expensive is because DeBeers says they are.”

I’m not an expert, but they seemed to know what they were talking about.

#10

A good quality CZ is superior (in appearance) to a diamond. Why people, esp. those on limited incomes, pay such inflated prices for diamonds I’ll never understand.
Peace,
mangeorge

Work like you don’t need the money…
Love like you’ve never been hurt…
Dance like nobody’s watching! …(Paraphrased)

#11

Yarster,
Diamonds are not good mugging material, mostly because of those horribly inflated DeBeers prices–unlike gold, diamonds cannot be resold for anything near what you paid for them. Furhtermore, really big stones can be diffucult to move. If the resale value to a respectable jewler is 50% or whatever (I’m not sure it is that bad, but it is horrible) the return from a fence in going to be absoulutly pitiful. Always steal cash.

That said, I want to agree that I think diamonds are a horrible rip off. A couple thousand in debt for a chunk of rock is no way to start a marriage. There was a time when a woman’s dowery would be contained in jewlry, usually precious metal, that she wore, but the understanding was that that dowery was the family savings, not a piece of sentiment. In bad years, pices were sold off to by food; in good years they were replaced and passed down to the next generation. Diamonds, with their pitiful resale value, don’t even serve this purpose.

If I were presented with a diamond, my response would be “WTF? We coulda gone to Europe!”

#12

The Wife would kill me if I ever spent the money it costs to buy a diamond.

She’d much rather have a new boat.

Dr. Fidelius, Charlatan
Associate Curator Anomalous Paleontology, Miskatonic University
“You cannot reason a man out of a position he did not reach through reason.”

The wøndërful telephøne system

#13

I’ve always liked DeBeers. Heineken, Labatt’s, Molson…

#14

Odd. Somehow the original post got screwed up. If it was an anti-DeBeers rant, though, I agree wholeheartedly. If fact, I already did (in advance). See my response in the Ads I Hate thread in MPSIMS.

#15

Oofa… barley fifty posts and I have created a confusing monster. Some really funny responses though :slight_smile: I am really really sorry about this folks. See what ranting can do for you? It can make you look like an ass.

Random, yeah, yer post in MPSIMS is exactly what got me thinking about DeBeers, and that led to my bile-producing/confusion-inducing rant. (The original post was supposed to go in GD under the * John Lennon’s Legacy, what was the most important?*thread.

What I was looking for (if anyone is still willing to pay attention) is a site or reference to some facts about the way DeBeers (hiss!) does there business.

I don’t have my notes from college, but in one of my econ. courses I read a bit about them… some pretty atrocious stuff. Not just their marketing (diamond engagement figures from Japan pre- and post- DeBeers and ‘anniversary bands’ pre- and post- are pretty amazing. Not that I mind good marketing, mind you, but… well, maybe I do in this case. Their techniques just disgust me.) but also their business practices in Southern African countries, and against their competitors.

If I find anything, I’ll try and post it (here or under some random thread) or hope to see something. Again, I apologize for the confusion, and am no going to chew on some aluminum foil in repentance.

Once in a while you can get shown the light
in the strangest of places
if you look at it right…

#16

Shit! …does their business…
…and am now going to chew…
and for this I pay five hundred dollars a month in student loans?

#17

Was the “barley” supposed to be a clever beer pun?

#18

What I was looking for (if anyone is still willing to pay attention) is a site or reference to some facts about the way DeBeers (hiss!) does there business.
—Rhythmdvl

There was an excellent program on PBS about this subject. Tried to find a link, but got tired. :slight_smile: Oh, well.
Peace, and goodnight.
mangeorge

#19

I looked for the PBS link, too, mangeorge.
I believe it was on Frontline.
You may remember that DeBeers cannot conduct business in the U.S. because of the antitrust laws. Diamond dealers have to travel overseas to do the primary business.
The story also said that diamonds are actually fairly common. DeBeers has a stranglehold on the market. What diamond fields they do not own directly are controlled in some way by them (you’re the owner?..here’s our deal. Play by our rules and be rich. turn us down and we’ll flood the market with the particular kind of diamond you have and you’ll be ruined…your choice).

#20

and I like The Beatles, too.