Not exactly. There was corroborating and contradictory testimony on both sides. At least 7 people testified under oath they saw some or all of the altercation. The jury had great difficulty making a decision. They wanted a mistrial because they could not reach a unanimous verdict. Both sides decided to accept a split verdict. The vote was 8-2. So 8 people came to the conclusion that Ventura was right. And by all accounts even those 8 agonized over it and it was a near thing. So I don’t count that as a definitive “we know he lied about…” Despite Kyle’s credibility problems from the other two stories I would believe him over kooky Jesse Ventura and his buddy Alex Jones any day of the week. And Kyle of course did not get the opportunity to testify about it.
Bolding, mine - do you have a cite? I have yet to see a good breakdown of how the case went inside court.
And it’s not just the lying that was the conflict; it was whether Kyle knowingly lied and profited from it (per 2nd hand accounts I have read). Agree that Ventura and Jones are both crazy - but a defamation case is a high hurdle, and it was crossed (did I just mix metaphors?), and he won it.
Ah, so you let other people determine which movies you watch. That’s too bad.
I saw more about it at the time with more details but this has a quick overview.
So it is not just a matter of Chris Kyle telling a story. There were witnesses. Dismiss them out of hand if you wish. But witnesses plus Ventura craziness makes me believe that something closer to Chris Kyle’s account happened. I do know that the SEAL community firmly backed Kyle and not Ventura in this matter even though he had been treated as one of their own up to that point.
Looking over some articles it appears that an appeal has been filed just a couple of weeks ago. I have no idea what grounds they are using for the appeal.
Was the SEAL community at the bar?
Quite a few of them were. The alleged incident happened at a known SEAL bar in Coronado. It happened at a gathering after a wake for a fallen SEAL. Ventura was there for a SEAL class graduation. The two of them did not randomly show up at some bar together.
We both agree that Ventura is loony (the 9-11 truther nonsense comes to mind), but I haven’t seen anything that points to him being a liar. As for Kyle-would be easier to believe what Kyle wrote if it didn’t fit in with his “Spin a yarn to make myself look like a badass” that the other fabrications seem to be.
I also put no stock in the SEALs backing him up-I’d expect that.
Ventura was a SEAL too.
Not quite - he was in a precursor; the Underwater Demolotion Teams.
Sure. But don’t tell a SEAL that. When someone was trying to tell Chris Kyle that Ventura was not a real SEAL I heard him stop them immediately. To the SEALs they consider their precursors to be as much of the SEAL family as anyone who goes through now. It wasn’t their fault the designations were different. Until this lawsuit Ventura was welcome at any and all SEAL reunions and graduations just like anyone else who went through the training. From the SEALs I’ve met it is a sore subject. They do not discriminate against those that went before them. Members of Naval Combat Demolition Units and Underwater Demolition Teams are considered to be SEALs by the SEALs. It’s not up to me to argue with them about it.
Depends on which SEAL you ask - it seems that the answer can be a Rorschach on if you have an axe to grind.
But he never was designated a SEAL, nor wore a Budweiser…not that BUD/S was any different for him, but the UDTs had lower mortality rates in Viet Nam.
Jesse Ventura sued Kyle over a bar fight and he said vs he said? Seriously?
That is so pathetic.
It wasn’t just the fight - it was that (according to Kyle) Ventura said that the SEALs deserved to lose a few in the war(IIRC), said some anti-war stuff, and then Kyle had to lay him out.
This is what Ventura was talking about when he said that it negatively affected his reputation. Not that he got in a scrap at a bar.
Yes and it gets worse, that Loon also decided to sue the publisher of the book and subsequent film on the grounds that is “alleged” fight with Kyle increased the sales of the movie and box office by “millions”.
Seriously, that guy and a bus fire need to meet.
Anything dealing with Ventura isn’t in the book and if it makes anyone feel any better, a sniper’s “kill count” must be substantiated by both paperwork and witnesses, otherwise it’s not considered official. I didn’t find the book to be any kind of SOF-swinging dick-macho-end of the night bar tale - actually I found him to make it very real and kind of humble.
I don’t know if the movie does the same.
Ventura didn’t see any combat as far as I know. He was stationed in the Philippines not Viet nam. But I have never heard any SEALs say UDTs from that era were on a lower level than them. But of course there is room for differences of opinion within any large group. The official stance of the SEALs is that UDTs are considered SEALs.
Official stance? Was there a message, or instruction? Cite?
Not trying to split hairs - I’m genuinely interested.
I’ve seen the movie. I have not read the book. (Oddly, it’s the opposite situation with Lone Survivor.) I tthought the movie was quite good, with not as much of the “WTF is he doing?” that partially ruined The Hurt Locker for me. The movie does make Sam Shepard’s Chuck Yeager in The Right Stuff seem like a nuanced, even-handed look at the man, compared to how the movie portrays Chris Kyle. He comes off as some kind of mythic Ur-Texan—he’s riding broncs in the rodeo before he became a SEAL—humble, forthright, God-fearing. But you can’t help liking the guy.
Basically, the movie examines the tension between Kyle’s desire to serve his country, help his brothers-in-arms, and do what he’s really, really good at, and his wife’s need to have him home. All of him, as she notices that even when he’s home, his attention and thoughts are still back in Iraq. Bradley Cooper does a fantastic job, even with his accent migrating from West Texas to East Texas throughout the movie.
I thought it was worth the matinee price of admission, FWIW.
Anything dealing with Ventura isn’t in the books being sold now. That part was removed because of the lawsuit.
They converted the last UDT teams into either SEAL teams or Swimmer/SEAL (I’ve seen it written as both) Delivery Vehicle [SDV] teams in 1984, per this article by Dick Couch in Proceedings. From that article, I see the difference between the two groups as: the SEALs were primarily concerned with direct action, raiding, and small unit reconnaissance, while the UDT guys were concerned with beach and beach obstacle reconnaissance/removal and operating SDVs. But both weren’t that different from each other.
The National Navy UDT/SEAL Museum mentions both and that the UDTs basically morphed into what are now the SEAL Teams. But I haven’t been able to find anything concretely stating that the UDTs were equivalent to SEALs.