Every once in a while, when the action on my game slows down enough to allow for thought, but not enough to allow me to watch my boxman’s end, I find myself pondering this game called craps. In particular, I wonder, what kind of perverse mind could come up with a game so godawful complicated that it takes three people to deal it, plus a fourth person whose sole purpose for existence is to watch the game and make sure the rest of us don’t screw up? (Not to mention the member of the crew recovering in the breakroom after having his/her brain reduced to a quivering mass of cytoplasm.) Can the Teeming Millions enlighten me on this subject?
I wish I could.
Besides Blackjack, Craps is the only casino game where the house and player have comparable odds. (Of course, slighty in the house’s favor.) With the right strategy, the odds can be edged in favor of the player.
Now, Blackjack is easy; craps is over my head. I oughta find a good craps tutorial and learn it. I go to Atlantic City occasionally, and I’ve had a run of bad luck with bj.
Let the Truth of Love be lighted/ Let the Love of Truth shine clear. Sensibility/ Armed with sense and liberty
With the Heart and Mind united in a single/ Perfect/ Sphere. - Rush
Just so you know, I love craps- I don’t find it hard to figure out at all. Get a home version of it and you’ll learn all you need to know.
“Ten dollars on all the hardways!”
Zette
Love is like popsicles…you get too much you get too high.
Not enough and you’re gonna die…
Click here for some GOOD news for a change Zettecity
Home version? Craps should be played back in the stockroom, on your knees, on payday.
Maybe we should take this over to the Jesus freaks curently infesting Great Debates. Didn’t the Roman soldiers shoot dice for Christ’s clothes while he was being crucified?
Uke
“Come seven, come eleven…for Our Father Who Art in Heaven.”
Zette, my dear, why would I want to get a home version of craps when I spend eight hours a day looking at a craps table? (OK, six hours, I get a twenty minute break every hour, and Lord knows, I need it.) The game I get. I just want to know who invented the freaking thing, so I can give the sonofabitch a good talking to.
BTW, Z, all the hardways ten dollars each is a bet. Seven out, line away, pay the don’ts and last come.
Ahhhh…I didn’t answer the question. Sorry!
A two second internet search turned up this: http://www.harrahstahoe.com/craps/history.html
That might help.
The odds on the Pass/Don’tPass and Come/Don’tCome bets in craps are actually worse than the odds on betting one of the sides at Bacarat, unless the house offers ‘free odds’ as a bet. Then, if I recall (someone can look it up, I can’t find my helpful gambling manual), the vig drops to just under 1% for double odds, and something like .6% for triple odds.
Basic craps, it should be noted, is NOT a complicated game. It is the fact that all those proposition bets have cropped up over the years on the table that makes it necessary to have so many staff on a table. 
This is possible at blackjack if one is a skilled card counter. It is not possible at craps.
Playing the pass line, the house has a 1.41% advantage. With single odds, the advantage is .85%, with double it’s .61% and with 5X odds the advantage drops to .33%. It odds never tilt in the player’s favor, and the pass + odds bet (along with the come + odds, which is essentially the same thing with a different come-out roll) is the best bet on the table.
Jesus saves… Gretzky grabs the rebound… He Scores!
it’s turning into one of those days when I’d rather be doing something constructive, like having sex with the boxman…
Seriously, Millions, all of this begs the question, What kind of perverse mind could come up with a game so complicated that it takes three people to deal it, etc. BTW, Zette, I checked out Harrah’s website. No help there, but thanks anyhoo. DSYoungESQ is right, the basic game is not that complicated, as I’m sure Uke knows from his stockroom adventures. What I want to know is who took the basic game and added on all the prop bets, etc. and turned it into this convoluted mess? Oh, and Uke, I hope you’re getting true odds on those stockroom games. The guy running them has no overhead to pay, so anything less than true odds, and you’re getting ripped off.
I never could get the hang of Thursdays. - Arthur Dent
You cannot beat the casino over the long term unless you are a proficient card counter at blackjack and the house doesn’t catch you and they’re dealing with only a few decks at most. Do any of these “unlesses” involve you? Probably not. Give up. You’re not gonna get rich playing against the house.
I’m just surprised no one’s made fun of this sentence yet:
“Luck be a lady tonight. . .”
“I’m just too much for human existence – I should be animated.”
–Wayne Knight
For what it’s worth, I enjoy casino blackjack, with no intention of making a profit.
I play basic strategy - no card counting. Sometimes I win – more often I lose. But I derive a certain enjoyment in simply playing. It’s a Zen-like state… you never have to think about a play… you just react.
This is why I - in true snobby blackjack fashion - tend to get a bit irritated when a new player is at the table… not because his misplay will screw up the cards, or anything; we all know that’s not the case. Rather, the hesitation, the indecision, the “What should I do,” interrupts the Zen-like flow of the game that I find so relaxing.
In essence, then, I’m willing to pay for this entertainment… I saw Don Giovanni last fall and spent $120 per seat. I seldom leave the casino down that much, and sometimes I even leave ahead.
All things considered - it’s a good thing.
- Rick
The reason craps has gotten so complicated is because the casino likes it that way. The more complicated the game, the more chances for suckers to make a bad play. And craps is FULL of sucker bets. As Manhattan said, the pass-line vig is only 1.41%, but some of the other bets on the table like the hard 8 and field bets go into double digits for house vig, making them the worst bets in the casino with the exception of Keno.
Judging by the posts I’m getting in response to my initial question, it’s probably a good thing my pit boss is transferring me to the blackjack pit next week.
I never could get the hang of Thursdays. - Arthur Dent
On a related note, which came first: playing craps or taking them?
–It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats.
or leaving them.
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- As it has been noted by Cecil himself, casinos can throw you out for anything they want. Even winning too much. A few people in the St Louis area have been barred from casinos because they count cards - in other words, they win too much. (It’s not the amount one wins, but the percentage of turns one wins that they watch for.) A brother-in-law who was a dealer in Vegas told me this years ago, and local casino personnel have said the same thing.
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- When I sold lottery tickets, it was -sadly- common for people to forget how much they lost. I heard lots of people say that “they (or someone they knew) usually won all the time” but I never saw anyone actually do it. They usually have no idea how much a year they spend on lottery tickets, but the $250 or $500 win they remember forever. -Gambling is entertaining; I do it a few times a year but I don’t expect to be richer afterwards. And I dunno how to play craps either-I think early on they just tried to scam you on the complex rules. - MC