Who knows video graphics cards? Need help picking one.

I’m sort of looking into a new computer. I figure that the one thing I’d want (after lots of RAM) to keep my computer from being obsolete within 12 months is a high-end video card. Yes, I want to play games, somewhat, but also plan on some basic video-editing, Photoshop work, and a little 3D experimentation.

Looking at the Dell site, they have one computer that offers the following choices:

[ul]
[li]128MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon X800 SE[/li][li]256MB PCI Express™ x16 Nvidia GeForce 6800 GTO Graphics Card[/li][li]256MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon X800 XT[/li][/ul]

The prices are only listed as starting with the low-end one being “$0”, so it’s

[ul]
[li]128MB ATI Radeon X800 SE: $0[/li][li]256MB Nvidia GeForce 6800 GTO: $150[/li][li]256MB ATI Radeon X800 XT: $270[/li][/ul]

The only main difference (other than RAM) is that the ATI’s have TV-out. I have no idea what the purpose of that really is, and what uses I might make of it.

Any thoughts or comments on these cards, or other types of cards?

Your best bet is to look at the websites that serve as forums for the application programs you are using. That’s the easiest wau to find the best video card- there’s a whole realm of frustration when you have application/card issues.

PCExpress is relaitvely new, and it’s supposed to be faster than an AGP connection, but I’m not sure if it has the direct memory access.

Tech forums seem to hold the ATI cards in higher regard, but I use nVidia and it’s just fine.

TV out (S-video or some other connector) allows you to use your TV as a second or alternate monitor. If you want a bigger screen size, or want to use a second screen for 3D modeling, it may be useful to you.

EEEEEEEKKKK!!!

I just looked it up on their webby, are you prepared to pay over $1799 for it? and did you know you actually have to make sure you order a USB printer cable at extra cost, got oughtta here!

Its only giving you 512M of RAM, and today we are looking at 1Gig being more and more common, its not exactly generous on the hard drive either 160gigs aint much for these days, and really you need to think perhaps at 2 drives or even more.

I just looked again and added the things you would probably find essential, such as a keyboard and mouse, monitor, speakers, dvd writer, mid range graphics(the middle one of those you specified), a second hard drive 160Gb.

I didnt select anything exotic, just the sensible sort of stuff, no lcd monitor for instance, didnt bother with all that much software, didnt bother with extended warranty and several other bits and bobs.

Dood, to get even this package you are looking at $2886!! and that is just way way way too much, and to be honest there are likely going to be other things you’d realistically want to have, like maybe a second DVD drive, more software, especially video editing stuff, and even the anti virus they package is only a 3 months addition, so you’d soon be paying more to kep up the subscription.

Seriously - walk away, you can get much more power for far less cash.

Ok, I’ll bite. What are your recommendations? Where do I get much more power for far less cash?

There are lots of webbys dedicated to computer retail sales, being as I’m in the UK I can’t exactly recommend US ones, but most of the largish sellers are able to let you tailor your system on the net.

First, I’ll go into the reasons why your choice is so expensive.

You opted to go for Intel 775 socket chip and motherboard.

This means you also take up a lot of new technologies - new to the computer consumer on the street anyway.

Firstly, DDR2 memory, has the potential to be extremely fast, but it isnt yet delivering the goods, you can run plain old DDR at plenty high speeds if you get the quality stuff, meanwhile DDR2 is so new that you pay a premium for it, and the value is debateable.Unfortunately on these Intel PCI-E boards there is no support for DDR memory, so you have to shell out for the more expensive stuff, and you can’t take any existing from another DDR based system.

Next SATA hard drives, are more expensive than plain old IDE and as yet these SATA drives are not delivering the high throughput rates that have been touted. The reason for this is because the motherboard chipsets are not yet fully optimised, so you are paying for something not fully developed, again Intel based PCI-E boards don’t support IDE so you can’t use any existing IDE drives from your old system, you must buy the expensive alternative.

PCI-E is not yet mature, its expensive because its new, but worse, Intel are hoping to put on the market another motherboard format, the BTX , which will entail new case, this means that current systems will devalue rather faster once these come out.
PCI-E also means you need a dedicated graphics card for that slot which means if you already have a killer AGP graphics card, you cant take it with you.

PCI-E also does not support AGP port, which means you need to buy a new graphics card wether you want to or not, and it means you cant get yourself a bargain on EBay.

Intel have a nasty habit of making users upgrade lots of parts just to keep on the performance escalator, and this means high costs, worse still, they do this far too often as well so their stuff devalues more rapidly, which considering the intitial outlay already being high, is a bit too much to take.

At the moment its probably not a great idea to move up at all, far better to wait maybe three to six months, so many new technologies and format changes mean that the sub system manufacturers, such as graphics cards, are having a real job to keep up which means the prices stay higher for longer.

Right now, if you must upgrade, and you’re prepared to spend that kind of cash, you would do well to look at either AMD 64 socket 939 chips which are pretty much on the start of their run(hence a long upgrade path and better future proofing) or if you must go Intel, then I’d look at a differant maker than DELL, I mean, if you are paying around $2000 then you might reasonably expect that things such as printer cables, mouse and keyboard, are part of the package, to me this is just a maximum profit piss take.

The reports I’ve read are that the NVIDIA6800 cards are ruling the roost, and the mid price versions of them actually outperform things like the AT9800XT by quite some margin, you don’t really need 256Mb of memory yet so it shouldnt be a priority, rather, look for the faster card as this will be more useful.

I also recommend you look at this thread Spoofe has it well sorted, personally I’d maybe spend a couple hundred $ and go for 939 socketAMD chips but his choice is certainly valid.

Dell’s, while being competetive on the low end, are seriously over-priced pieces of shoddy junk - Dell & the other large OEM’s tend to cheap out on things like the Power Supply & RAM quality, when it comes to higher end computers. For high end machines like this, the best way to go is to build it yourself; if you are unable to do that, I reccomend going to a whitebox maker, and building a custom machine from there. Monarch Computer is pretty highly regarded among the geek circle.

I just configured a high-end machine, and for $1500 you can get an Athlon64 3200+, 1GB RAM, a Geforce 6800 GT (almost twice as fast as Radeon 9800XT; runs on par with a Radeon x800 Pro in most benchmarks, though it is much faster in Doom 3) a 160GB hard drive, a DVD-ROM & a DVD-burner, nice case & power supply, and WindowsXP. This machine should be much faster than any Dell or other large OEM in the same price range.

Thanks, very informed responses. I posted in the other thread, and will cross-post here since some of you may not check that one out. Basically, you’ve all come close to convincing me to build my own box.

Here’s my dream box spec:

[ul]
[li]AMD Athlon 64 FX-53, 1MB L2 Cache, Windows Compatible 64-bit Processor (Socket 939): $830[/li][li]Asus A8V Deluxe VIA Socket 939 ATX Motherboard: $140[/li][li]Seagate 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive: $130[/li][li]Corsair XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series,(Twin Pack) 184 Pin 2GB(1GB x 2) DDR PC-3200: $500[/li][li]eVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT Video Card With Free Doom 3Bundle, 256MB GDDR3, 256-Bit, TV-Out/DVI, 8X AGP: $400[/li][li]Plextor 12X DVD+RW/-RW Drive: $75[/li][li]Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2: $70[/li][/ul]

Now with case and speakers and miscellaneous items and Windows XP, I’m about maxed out. Which means I’ve got no office software and no monitor (I have an old 19" CRT that’s barely functioning).

So, I’m looking for something that won’t be obsolete in 18 months. Any thoughts on this spec, what I should cut out or look for a lower-level item? Am I making any big mistakes here, or leaving anything out?

Also, if I do want to game (3D games), is a flat-panel LCD not worth it?

With PCI Express, you’re on the bleeding edge. All of those graphics cards will serve you well, but the GeForce may be able to use SLI (basically you put in a second identical card and get a significant - near double - performance boost).

I’ll second the comments about Dell at the high end.

Using the GeForce cards in the hope you can sometime employ them in a dual graphics card system is premature.

No doubt that Nvidia will produce motherboard chipsets that are capable of running this, there are in the process of doing so right now, but, those boards will be very heavily feature laden and be expensive, and given the sheer power of their high end cards, gamers really will not see much benefit on the games emerging from the studios for some time.

The FX53 is one hellacious performer, no doubt there, owing such would be highly enviable, and its sure to be recognised as a classic as I would doubt that AMD will produce another chip that is so freely overclockable, but you pay plenty for the privelidge.
Myself, I’d opt for the 3500+ chip, sits in the same motherboard and is 90% or more as fast, and it costs a good $500 less, also the FX53 will drop in value quite quickly as AMD are definately bringing out faster versions and dual core cpus have been demonstrated and are on the horizon.

Your memory is real good, I’d go for that myself when I build my next system, but if you are not into overclocking then you could go for something else, however I think in your position I’d look at having 1Gig of memory in two 512Mb sticks rather than two matched 1Gig sticks, and instead perhaps try out Corsair XMS ultra low latency stuff, its more expensive but since you would be using less of it, it would cost less in total.

Here is a really great tip though, check out Corsair Value select range, you’ll get a dual channel 1Gig kit for $150 to $160, this should make plenty of savings and open your budget up, yes you can get faster but you have to be realistic at times and cutting your costs by$350 is such a time, especially when the gains by using very fast memery are relatively small.

I do have to ask if the soundcard is really worth getting, as the onboard sound is very good on that board, you could do without the soundcard and try it out and if it then does not meet your needs than you could install one later.The $70 card will be ok but if you are after some heavy duty stuff where the onboard is not going to be good enough, then maybe this card will not be good enough either, keep the cash in your pocket for now.

Your choice of motherboard is very highly rated, actually for socket 939 boards there isn’t too much to choose in speed between them, this is because the cpu has a built in memory controller and so the chipset does not give the manufactuteres much room to distinguish themselves so pretty much most 939 boards will suffice but you will not do much better than this in terms of value or speed.

I’d consider getting a second hard drive though, if video editing is what you want to do. Getting IDE is both cheaper, and easier to install, you could save a reasonable amount here and still have the speed.

Right now a lcd monitor that is fast enough for gaming is a very expensive choice, and they are not as flexible in use either.

LCD monitors have a ‘native resolution’ which means that they are designed to run at a specific screen res, such as 1200*1000 or whatever. When you change that resolution they dont look as good because they have to interpolate or guess what the nearby pixels should be.
I do recall that there is one LCD screen that is an exception it can run natively in at least two resolutions, I think its by DELL or one of the really big manufacturers but I cant quite recall.

Now you can’t always know just how the latest games will run on your machine, you might be able to run at16001400 on one game but have to reduce resolution to 800600 in a worst case scenario on another game.

Games are getting so sophisticated they are pushing even the very latest cards to the limit and forcing users to reduce resolutions to obtain high enough frame rates, so you need that flexibility.

I’d consider getting a CRT monitor, the technology is reliable and very much cheaper, in fact, with the card you are selecting you may well be able to run two monitors.

As for your software, well if I were you I would seriously look at OpenOffice, its free, but more than that, its good and makes you wonder what Microsoft will do to reply, why pay cash when this is 99% as good,for nothing at all.

http://www.openoffice.org/

I would advise you to get the user book though called** teahc yourself - open office**

http://www.compman.co.uk/cgi-win/browse.exe?ref=653075

This is very highly rated, well worth the cash.

Don’t forget to budget for that most important item, security, firewalls, virus checkers and that sort of thing, to me these are as much a part of any system as the other components.

…and dont skimp on the power supply, that graphics card is a real power hungry monster, I’d look at a quality unit of at least 400Watts, maybe 500Watts.

I reckon by using the tips I gave you, you can reduce your cost by $800 at the very least, more if you include the software, you have much more power than your original selection and it will be upgradeable and have a realistic life of three years or more before some applications start to make it flag.

Well, I did it. Gulp.

Thanks for all the helpful replies. I listened to most of your suggestions :slight_smile:

Machine:
[ul]
[li]CPU: AMD 3500+ ATHLON 64 939P[/li][li]MOTHERBOARD: ASUS A8V DELUXE K8T800PRO[/li][li]RAM: CORSAIR 1GB DDR 400 CRSR 512MB X2[/li][li]HARD DRIVE: Seagate 160GB 7200RPM SATA[/li][li]CASE: ASPIRE X-Navigator w/ 500 PW[/li][li]VIDEO: eVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT Video Card 256MB GDDR3, 256-Bit, TV-Out/DVI, 8X AGP[/li][li]DVD: Plextor 12X DVD+RW/-RW Drive[/li][/ul]
Accessories
[ul]
[li]MONITOR: Samsung 19" LCD 910T[/li][li]SPEAKERS: CREATIVE INSPIRE T3000[/li][/ul]
Software:
[ul]
[li]OS: Windows XP Pro SP2[/li][li]OFFICE: MS Office Small Business[/li][li]SECURITY: PC-cillin 2004[/li][/ul]

Bought the entire thing from newegg.com. Total Cost, including shipping: $2,560.

Think I did pretty well. Now all I have to do is build the damn thing and not screw it up.

That’s one very fast system there, the reviewers state that the lcd monitor is a little bit slow, however the customer reviews say something differant, they all seem pretty happy with the gaming performance, it might not be quite up to extreme gaming such as UT2004 which is insanely fast but DOOM3 seems happy enough with it.

Since OpenOffice is free, why not try it out anyway, you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

Casdave, from what I’ve read on various hardware sites, plus The Inquirer and The Register, the nVidia SLI facility simply requires two PCI Express slots and is not otherwise motherboard dependent. For best performance two x16 slots are required, of course, but at the moment there aren’t any and putting the second card in a x4 or x8 slot works just as well. There’s a direct connection made between the two cards, totally seperate from the PCI Express bus. Anyway, it’s exciting stuff and hopefully will be at a reasonable price in a year or so.