Boy I’m glad I’m never having children so I don’t have umpty-million people on a message board second-guessing my rules and telling me how to raise my children.
Oddly enough, I feel like vomiting too.
I’m sure the number of people commenting on your family life would be greatly reduced if you refrained from posting about it on a public message board.
everybody judges me based on how much i like THEM. so if i think ( correctly ) that you’re shit, and am rude to you ( because making YOU happy was never my objective ) then i automatically must be stupid.
not that its surprising, its just your basic defense mechanism, it is to be expected. it does however prove that my initial assessment of you was correct, otherwise you could defend yourself instead of resorting to denial.
No, everybody judges you on how you treat them. Most people have the emotional maturity to refrain from judging people on how much they like them. You, however, enter into every thread like a bull in a china shop, randomly insulting people for no reason and generally acting like the mal-adjusted, insular, immature, meatheaded mumpsimus that you are.
Your parents have done you a grave disservice in raising you so lackadaisically, my man. I would try to reason with you if I thought that you had the emotional capacity to understand why people respond poorly to your hamfisted tantrums. In your state of arrested development, however, I don’t think any progress would be made.
That is correct. Grasping that would help you a great deal. You have a lot of growing up to do. Lay off the fucking dianabol and take your Flinstones.
Ilsa_Lund, I think I love you.
Oh, :o. But what will people say? 
FTR, I have a teenage sister. Callers after curfew are directed to said sister, who is directed to inform them that it is past the time for calls and that they need to call a bit earlier.
Hm, I vguely remember having a phone curfew, as did everybody I knew. I think it was 9 pm. I have no problem wih kids having a phone curfew and a bedtime, and a homework time as well.
I don’t think I would have been that rude about getting a call after curfew, but if I had had a particularly bad day I might=)
And my brother lives with my parents at the age of 46…he went home after his divorce [ex and kids got the house] and he was only going to stay for the amount of time it took him to find a new apartment, but they all decided that they liked having him there. They go to florida every year for about 2 months, and it saves them getting a pet sitter to come in and take care of the cats, and water the plants and such, and at the age of 75 it is nice to know that they have someone there with them to help with heavy lifting and the like. I don’t think everybody that lives at home after high school is a waste, there are people living at home that have good reason to=)
No, I judged you from this post
I haven’t been here for about a year and I think it’s safe to say that you don’t even know me or have seen a post from me before.
So I wouldn’t even know if you liked me or not.
But then again, I could give a flying fuck if you liked me. And now that I think about it, I’m quite glad that someone like you doesn’t like me.
Sorry to everyone–on topic: No one was ever rude enough to call late at my house when I was growing up, at least none that I can remember. My mom let me know from early on that it was rude to call anyone after 9 p.m., so I never did. We did stay on the phone for hours, though (the calls were made before 9 p.m. obviously), and she let me have it about that.
I don’t know what the big debate here is. Some people have accused me of being raised by wolves (since I am apparently quite clueless at times) but I learned very early on that anything after 9 pm is strictly off-limits. Hell, I feel edgy calling anyone after 8:30 pm. I just think it’s best to err on the side of caution. Also bear in mind that I am an extreme night owl, so even though I may stay up 'til the wee hours, I realize that most people won’t. So I don’t call and am surprised if anyone calls me after 8:30 or 9. 'Cause that’s just how it is.
I have a friend who is in his 40s that moved in with his parents several years ago. I forget the exact details, but it was something about him getting tired of maintaining the apartment buildings he owned (he was a landlord) or something? Anyway, his parents are getting up in years and I love his parents (knew them before I knew him, actually), and I’m really glad he’s staying there with them, because they need his help. I think he’s a swell guy for staying with them.
Hell, a little over a year ago my sister, mom and I all moved in together (some of this was prompted by my sister’s delicate health—she really shouldn’t be living alone). :shrug: I know of more than a few people who live pretty independent lives who share households with parents or family. They share expenses and live far better then they would if they all lived alone. (If I had to live in an apartment, for instance, where would I put my kilns? I don’t think any landlord would look kindly on them, as they get very hot and emit weird fumes. And where would I have room for my potter’s wheel? It’s big and heavy and the splattered clay gets very messy.)
Well, enough of that hijack.
The lesson I’ve learned for this thread is that there is no rule a parent can set, no matter how logical, and no enforcement mechanism they can employ, no matter how light or routine, that some people will not bitch and whine and say they’re a Nazi and they don’t understand teenagers.
I would not have believed in my wildest dreams that anyone with a functioning brain would object to a parent determining that calls cannot be recieved past a certain time and telling some kid “do you know what time it is? Call earlier” when they call past that time. This strikes me as being the most reasonable and basic level of parenting, but apparently I was wrong. Because GOD FORBID an adult speak to a child in anything approximating a reasonable voice. that would be… “rude.”
dianabol is for amateurs i dont use orals.
anyway thanx for reminding me, i have to make an injection
Responsible and basic parenting does not include answering legitimate questions with rude, snappish retorts which do not instruct. And responsible parenting is for your own children, not their friends.
As for “rude”, well, that’s a subjective judgment, and in mine, it encompasses responding to “May I speak to X.” by saying “Do you know what time it is!?” rather than saying “It’s too late for X to receive a phone call. Please call before 9 if you wish to speak to X in the future.” It’s not about tone of voice, it’s about the implication in the choice of words. I also have a lurking suspicion that the OP would be less than thrilled if she had been on the receiving end of her own unnecessary diatribe, which is one of those things that my responsible parents taught me – if you don’t want to be spoken to in a certain way, then don’t speak to others in that fashion yourself.
But most importantly, the choice to snap rather than stay calm was terribly shortsighted. A reasonable response would’ve made the phone call into an Instructive Moment, not only informing the kid of the OP’s household policy but giving them what well may have been their first glimpse into the idea that most people do not appreciate late evening calls. (11 year olds are notoriously self-centered and insular until someone says something that makes a lightbulb go off.) The kid could’ve been taught something that applied specifically and generally, giving her a tool that will serve her as she grows up. Instead she got fussed at, and probably hung up feeling bad, and nothing fruitful came out of the exchange whatsoever.
A good opportunity was wasted so that the OP could vent her temper over a truly petty infraction of a rule that the kid didn’t even know about, and then the OP came here wanting support. Under the circumstances, she won’t be getting it from me.
No, but rude, snappish retorts that do instruct are fair game.
Politeness is not always a virtue. Some situations require a modicum of brusqueness to be best resolved. Your example is a specific rule: don’t call TeaElle’s after 9:00. The OP is a general lesson: some people get pissed off if you call them too late. This will make the child think before she calls anyone else at night: “It’s 10 o’clock. If I call my friend Jennifer, will her mom get pissed off the same way Stacy’s mom did? Maybe I’d better wait 'til tomorrow.” The child has learned: don’t call people really late, they might not like it.
My parents always taught me, if I don’t want to be spoken to in a “certain way,” then shouldn’t act like an asshole. Consequently, if I received a reaction like the OP’s, I would feel awful. Because I had gone and done something stupid and pissed off someone I didn’t mean to piss off.
I don’t see how the OP’s response doesn’t do all of that. In fact, it reinforces it much more strongly than you’re approach: discussing it calmly makes it sound like it’s only your wierd little rule. Snaping at the kid shows that she has transgressed a social taboo. “Don’t you know what time it is?” implies that this is something she should have known.
And you think your Mister Roger’s approach is going to get through that insularity? Like hell. “TeaElle doesn’t like it when people call her late,” isn’t going to register. “ivylass gets pissed at me if I call late,” is going to be heard loud and clear.
This sounds very Nazi-mad-scientist, but pain is instructive. I’m not saying kids should be beat on, or anything, but if the kid feels bad because of getting snapped at, she’s probably going to avoid doing things that make her feel bad. Like not calling people late at night. And it’ll be a stronger lesson because it will be internalized: “calling late makes other people feel bad” is too abstract for a lot of kids. “Calling late makes me feel bad” is immediate, and will be heeded.
So this is what happens when I leave for the weekend.
FTR, I was not rude. I may have been a bit brusque in asking, “Do you know what time it is?” but I was not snotty about it. My daughter had been in bed for about two hours, and I was not about to wake her up for any “emergency.” If it were that bad, my daughter would not have been the one to handle it anyway, it should have been handled by an adult. And as I stated, the girl did not seem to be in any distress. It was a perky request to talk to my daughter. Believe me, I have some experience in dealing with the crises of 11-year-old girls, and this one was not having a crisis.
I stand by my decision. Whatever the rules may be in your house, my children do not accept calls after 9pm. Period.
And vasyachkin? I do not consider giving in to my children’s every whim to be “stupid.” They can have a bloody cell phone when they can bloody well pay for it themselves.
Wow. I am completely blown away by some of the responses here. The phone manners I had drummed into me as a child included:
[ul]
[li]You ask permission before using the phone.[/li][li]You do not call anyone after 8:30pm unless it is an emergency.[/li][li]If someone’s house rules set an earlier phone cutoff time, you follow that instead.[/li][li]You introduce yourself when the phone is answered (“Hello Mrs. Lass. This is Cazzle. May I please speak to Ivygirl?”).[/li][/ul]Obviously I’ve outgrown some of those rules - for one, I don’t ask my husband’s permission before using the phone. Somehow I just sort of expected that children would still have similar rules imposed on them because it’s polite.
I’m afraid I would have been Dragon Lady if I had intercepted a similar call. The first thing I would have done is asked for the caller’s name, and said “Ivygirl can’t come. We don’t allow her to take calls after 9pm.” Then I would have asked to speak to one of her parents. I would then have enquired if they knew that their child was using the phone at 11pm and told them that our house rule was no calls after 9pm, and could they please make sure their daughter respected that in future.
Apparently some of the posters in this thread would consider that out of line. I think it’s a reasonable response in the circumstances. Mr Cazzle would be way more hostile than I. He gets annoyed now when people call after 8:30pm, and we’re a childless couple in our mid-to-late twenties who have a habit of staying up late. There’s just something about late night phone calls that sets off our internal “Someone is dead!” alarms and that’s partly why we don’t think it’s polite.
I hope to have children one day, and I hope they grow up to be well-mannered adults. I realise there’s no clear right and wrong in parenting, but it seems to me that teaching your children to be considerate towards others has to be a step in the right direction. If they were inconsiderate to others, I’d appreciate a head’s-up so the behaviour could be dealt with.
I think the problem that I (and, I think, others in this thread) have with the OP is not that she sets rules for her children and expects them to be followed; all parents should do this. The problem is the implicit assumption that the OP’s rules are the exclusive and only correct rules, and that anyone not following them is an uncivilized barbarian.
There are a lot of people in this thread making the absolute and unqualified statement that “calling after 9 (or some other arbitrary time) is rude, period.” I don’t really think that’s true. I was given my own telephone line at 14, and was permitted to use it literally whenever I chose - if I wanted a friend to call at 2:00AM, and was willing to give up a measure of sleep for whatever reason, I was allowed to do so. Other friends had cut-off times: some at 9, some at 10, some at 11. Over time, I learned these cut-off times (usually by asking directly), and respected them when I made calls. If someone called my house at 10:55, it would not have been rude: everyone in my house was usually awake at that time.
When the OP asks her child’s friend, “Do you know what time it is?”, I think the implied statement is: “If you do know what time it is, and you’re calling anyway, than clearly you have been raised by incontinent gibbons, because no well-raised child would ever knowingly make a phone call at this hour.” But this simply isn’t true. I consider myself to have been well-raised, but if a conversation had mistakenly led me to believe that a friend was allowed to accept calls at 10:55, I certainly would have made the call if moved to do so. If a parent had answered and said, “sorry, Susie isn’t allowed to take calls after 9,” I wouldn’t have called again after that time. But if a parent had answered in the way the OP did, I would have been offended on my own behalf and that of my parents by the implication that no reasonable person would ever make a phone call at just before 11.
The implied statement could also be “You know the rules we have about late night calls. Next time check the clock before you call.”
I get the gist of what you are saying, and I kinda agree in principle, but I’m gonna have to side with TeaElle here. What bothers me is this unspoken double standard. It just seems that a prevailing feeling is that since the caller is just “Stacy’s little friend” that she doesn’t merit the least bit of consideration or decency.
To illustrate this, assume the caller wanted your SO, someone from the office maybe. You sure as hell wouldn’t say “Do you realize how late it is?” and hang up. No. You’d probably wake them up and give them the phone. The feeling that kids don’t merit the same respect, or deserve the same level of consideration as the growedups is troubling. If Ivylass had heard an adult voice, she probably wouldn’t have reacted the way she did.
There isn’t any reason not to respond with a gentle “I’d rather that Ivyette’s friends not call after nine, is it something really important?” I think that elfbabe’s anecdote illustrates this point pretty well.
But it will also internalize the notion that Ivylass doesn’t like me, that I can’t really count on Ivylass to be understanding. Next thing you know, little Stacy will be up in a clock tower. But seriously, a little bit of kindness never hurt, and in the long run might be a better lesson than a short term telling off.