Inspired by this thread in which it is claimed that Obama “IS the most left leaning President in history”
We can leave the debate about Obama’s liberalism rating for that thread. But as asked in a manner by Bryan who has been the most liberal President until now and how did he do?
Here’s one take on it that may be a good place to start. The author first tries to define what liberal vs conservative means:
which in itself is not without cause for debate. After all many neocons are far from wanting to avoid foreign entanglements and religious conservatives are dealt out of that definition entirely.
From that start the attempt goes downhill. But the start of at least attempting to define the terms, and to recognize that we are judging by today’s definitions, is a necessary one.
Another stab at it ranks FDR and Johnson as very liberal. And names mentioned, but hardly debated, in the thread include Woodrow Wilson, Lincoln, and Carter.
FDR does seem the obvious choice to me for all the usual reasons. Johnson’s Great Society brings him up not too far behind. Carter may have had liberal views but didn’t really do anything to judge him by. And Woodrow Wilson seems to be an interesting choice, what with taking over the railroads, helping achieve women’s suffrage, promoting the labor movement, helping make the Senate a democratically elected institution, and spearheading the League of Nations. Of course he also restarted the draft. And the occasional mention of Nixon is not without some justification when one stops to think about what he actually did and tried to do as President (other than his crimes). Few remember that Nixon failed in an attempt at comprehensive healthcare reform and universal coverage long before Hillary bungled it. The EPA began under his watch as did the DEA. He opened up with China and began the Strategic Arms Limitation Talks. He funded education as a means to combat drug use and almost got a negative income tax through Congress. And it was Nixon who gave us “goals and timetables” affirmative action.
So how would rank order some of these as liberals and why?
The problem is that the term ‘liberal’ pretty much has changed over time. Using your definition I’d have to say that Johnson was probably the most liberal President to date…no way to judge Obama yet.
It’s a pretty easy call since it’s a fairly modern way to look at things in the terms you have set them in. Before the last few decades I don’t think many (or maybe any) Presidents fit into the modern ‘conservative’ vs ‘liberal’ molds. Even someone like Roosevelt or Kennedy didn’t really fit into those molds, especially if you are going to use a modern yard stick to judge them on. Democrats weren’t really ‘liberal’ by today’s standards of what that term means…and Republican’s weren’t ‘conservative’ if we are looking at the modern quasi-religious overtones that implies now. Hell, they weren’t ‘conservative’ by the standards of smaller government and such either, not down the line.
My guess, based on the threads that seem to be springing up on the board lately and some of the comments being made, is that you are really asking…is OBAMA the ‘most liberal President’ evah. Answer to that would be: Jury is still out but I doubt it. I don’t think it’s going to matter how ‘liberal’ or ‘centrist’ he is in the long term though…as Bush was judged on the war in Iraq, Obama is going to be judged on how well the economy responds to his initiatives (my take on that right now is…jury is still out but we may be screwed if things continue as they have thus far).
…I can hear the shouts of protest already. ‘But…it’s not OBAMA’S fault! He inherited it all from Bush and the Republican’s!’. Yeah…and? He is the man in the Oval Office…he is going to be judged on what happens from here on out, no matter how many times you repeat that. In the end folks aren’t going to completely buy ‘But it’s all Bush and the Republican’s fault’ to yourselves…not if the economy goes over a cliff on Obama’s (and the Democrats who control Congress and the Senate and have since 2006) watch.
Anyway, my vote is Johnson by the OP’s definition.
I agree with this. Civil rights legislation is very “liberal”* and starting wars in other countries in order to provoke regime change, ostensibly for the benefit of the people there, is not very conservative*.
Thank you for trying to make some historic judgments.
Again, the thread that spawned this one is the place for Obama rating (if you must), not here. This thread is merely the place to establish where the bar is and to have some basis for a perspective. Perhaps to discuss what “liberal” means in the context of judging politicians from different eras. Feel free to offer up other definitions than what I’ve put up. I acknowledge its grave limitations.
Of course the labels themselves are simplistic. Real politicians have been very mixed bags of intents and accomplishments. Seriously, if Nixon had been a Democrat (and not a paranoid crook who put many liberals on his enemies list) almost all would look at that agenda of his (both of what he succeeded in getting done and tried to achieve but failed) and call him a great liberal. What did Carter do, or even try to do, that even compared from a liberal agenda POV? Nixon was perceived as conservative only because he was viewed in the context of having followed Johnson and compared to those he ran against. But attempted metric of liberal vs conservative that judges in a broader context across decades would have to call him to the liberal side.
I guess I am surprised that there is no (to the best of my ability to find anyway) ranking system out there. Of course it would be arbitrary, simplistic, and maybe a wee tad silly but that has never stopped anyone from ranking Senators like that, has it?
Wilson is a tough one. While he has a lot of “liberal” in his record, he was also, IIRC, an inveterate racist, even by the standards of his time. I guess the world of politics is a little more complex than simple labels would allow.
I’d go with Franklin Roosevelt with Lyndon Johnson in second place.
I’m picking Roosevelt because when he was President, isolationism was still the dominant conservative foreign policy position. Johnson was an interventionist but by the time he was President, most conservatives had switched to that position as well.
then Teddy has to be in the discussion. He vigorously broke up what he deemed to be monopolies, was the first environmental president (by promoting conservation), was active in world politics (he won the Nobel Peace prize, pushed for the Panama Canal), was the first to argue for universal health care, and his Square Deal presaged the FDA and regulated railroads.
Jefferson? Though, his presidency was significantly more pragmatic than his writings, but his writings do pretty much lay the foundation for Liberalism. (Whereas Hamilton would be the predecessor to Conservativism, even if he was never president.)
On a side note, I don’t necessarily like that definition of Conservative and Liberal. To me, conservatives are generally for the status quo and liberals push for new ideas. Conservatives (I consider myself a nominal conservative) want to “get back to our core beliefs” while liberals want the government to “do more”. In that light then Lincoln might get my vote for most liberal.
If we use the definitions in the OP then I think Jefferson becomes very conservative. He (mostly) pared back the Federal government and, despite being a Francophile, attempted to stay out of European entanglements. For his time, though, I believe Jefferson to be fairly liberal.
Like I said, he was more pragmatic as president than his writings. But I’ll note that he kept the Federal government small in the hope of not aiding industry. In the politics of the day, a smaller government was seen as giving more to the common man since intrusiveness would push them away from a peaceful, yeoman farmer existence. Ideas like welfare and medicare didn’t exist back then, so big government meant big business not big brother.
True to a certain extent. But Wilson was definitely a conservative on racial issues. Theodore Roosevelt had implemented some early “affirmative action” programs. When Wilson was elected, he cancelled these programs and fired the black federal government employees who had been hired under Roosevelt. Wilson was not only opposed to moving forward, he was trying to turn back the clock to what he felt was the older and more proper racial view.
Just a conincdence that the states south of the Mason-Dixon line vote conservative, or that the Republican party moved right with the “southern strategy” to woo disanfranchised white voters or that there is a huge skew in black/white voting with blacks voting overwhelmingly Democratic.
Obama surely sets records for being born furthest west, and going to grade school furthest east. (Hawaii and Indonesia are both pretty hard to beat for future US presidents).
George Washington was ten miles past liberal and into revolutionary. Literally. The man raised and led an army to topple the authority of a monarch. Top that.