Who were the first "historians" in the modern sense of the word. The Romans?

Just curious. When did the writing of literary “histories” begin?

Herodotus of Halicarnassus is considered the first writer of history. He wrote about the wars between Persia and Greece, in the mid 5th century BCE.

It’s a great read, if you ever get a chance to check it out.

At least in the west the argument usually comes down to Herodotus ( a little earlier, but rather more mythologized and speculative ) or Thucydides ( a little later, but a more rigorous, fact-based contemporary history ). Both wrote in the 5th century B.C.E. .

  • Tamerlane

This thread may be of interest and includes links to online versions of the works of Herodotus and Thucydides.

I think Thucydides fits the modern definition of “historian” better than Herodotus. He was more fastidious about facts than Herodotus, who never let facts get in the way of a good story (that was part of his charm), and was driven by the belief that history was something we could learn from, so as to avoid repeating our mistakes.

Herodotus’ “Histories” are a lot of fun, but Thucydides’ history of the Pelopponesian War makes him the first historian worthy of the name.

Si-ma Qian, Chinese historian (145-85 BC) was a contender. He’s China’s most famous ancient historian. Actually have no clue but would guess there were other earlier Chinese historians. Anyone, Tammerlane?

Pre-Herodotus there were the so-called llogographai (prose writers as opposed to epic poets). The greatest of these was the Milesian Hecataeus, who was the first to submit tradition to the test of reason.

The followers of Hecataeus (Xanthus, Hellanicus, Scylax) either confined themselves to local history, or wrote general history (not Greek history exclusively) from a Persian standpoint. A notable exception was a contemporary of Hecataeus, Antiochus of Syracuse, who wrote a history of the Greek colonies in southern Italy and Sicily. Herodotus also may be styled a disciple of Hecataeus.

Taken almost verbatim from the Oxford Classical Dictionary.

Obviously Thucydides is more fact-oriented than Herodotus, but veracity does not history make. The INTENTION to be writing history, within what we now consider a framework that is historical, is what we need to consider in whether or not it’s history.

I think his is considered the first written history in China that can be truly called that. Written Chinese historiography can trace back to 841 B.C.E. when written ( or rather inscribed ) chronological lists of events began to be kept and oral traditions of course went back even farther. But apparently they weren’t compiled and presented as a written history of any sort until him.

  • Tamerlane

This book claims that the Zuozhuan is “China’s Oldest Narrative History”. It predates the work of Sima Qian, but I’m not enough a China scholar to say whether it meets the test put forward by Tamerlane.