Lets say a year from now or so, Israel gets a hair up its butt about Syria. Iraq has been very quiet with about 150,000 US troops in several bases throught its borders and North Korea shut up about the nuclear thing. Israel accuses Syria of harboring and training Palestinean terrorists in both Lebanon and Syria. Israel launches a preemptive strike against anti-Israeli forces inside Syria. A major offensive has cut thru Beirut and has swung right straight for Syria. France lays this directly on the US’ lap and vetoes any use of UN or NATO resources. Syria is stirring this all up as a US/Israel plot from the very beginning and (of course) every muslim in the world is up in arms (again). US is commited to defend Syria against Israel. Given the current technology, intelligence and technical secrets being shared between the 2 combatants, which side will win?
That would not happen because Israel controls the US military.
Israel vs the US?
The US, hands down. Why? A war would include a stoppage of trade between the two nations, which would cut much of Israel’s military support. No way Israel defeats the US.
Besides, in a war with the gloves off, we could probably nuke every square inch of the area.
Agreed, it’s not even close. The US has the better technology, better numbers, better just about everything. It wouldn’t be pretty, but the US would win. Plus, you would have every single Arab country that could jump on the bandwagon, since they would be guaranteed on the winning side for once.
Care to offer a cite or any evidence for this? Or should we just take a paranoid, unsubstanciated statement like this at face value?
Did you go through a Freemasons phase too? Bilderbergers? Tri-lats?
On a man per man basis I’ll take Israeli soldiers of US soldiers. I’m not saying US soldiers are poor by any means…just that Israeli soldiers seem among the best in the world. Witness the last few wars the Israelis fought. Hugely outnumbered and only a marginal tech advantage they kicked ass anyway.
Thei air force is likewise highly competent and their intelligence and special ops services are among the best in the world if not the best.
However, given that most of the Israeli military is supplied and outfitted by the US adn given the sheer size advantage the US has over Israel I would have to say Israel would have to lose in the final analysis.
Israel would have to be really anxious about something before they bit the US however. Hard to see how anyone could push Israel into attacking the US.
**Soup_du_jour
Neurotik
2Thick
**
You guys really think so? Israel is a war veteran, it knows how to counter most, if not all of the US precision guided bombs. It knows the terrain and its intelligence service rivals the CIA in that area. If it decides to go against the US, Israel will have no restrictions about shooting Syrian civilians. Training in Israel is top notch and it has enuf reserves to sustain a limited war. It can cut thru Syrians army like the US cut thru Iraq’s. The US reserves will not have been replenished by that time and any carrier group in the mediterranean near israel is a sitting duck for Isreali Airforce. Both sides have nukes. Both sides know each others tactics. Its not as clear cut as it seems.
and I dont think any arab nation would jump in on this fight. When 2 of your worst enemies fight it out, you would tend to just wait and see who comes out and jump on him when they are weak and bloodied.
No matter how much the Arabs hate the U.S., they hate Israel infinitely more.
I disagree. I think they’d pile on Isreal.
They may hate the US, but a lot of that is do to our support of Isreal.
I don’t see it happening of course. Isreal is the recipient of the largest annual foreign aid grant in the world.
You got a cite ** 2Thick **? The US and Israel are very close allies, for a varity of reasons, so I do find this scenerio about as likely as Australia invading New Zealand.
And while Israel’s military is top notch, and very well trained and equiped, it is much smaller than the US in terms of military strength, land area, and population(US 280 Million people, Israel, 6 Million) it gets most of military equipment from the US. Just park a couple carriers in the Med, fight their airforce and bomb their military equipment, wait until they run out of planes, ammo, and spare parts,and then invade conventually. Thats without nukes. With nukes, I don’t think Israel’s missles can reach the US.
I’m sure enough people think like you do X~Slayer(ALE), which would give the US the political room to take the gloves off. It wouldn’t be a contest-- esp if the US had build up time.
And as Soup-de-jour mentioned, a huge chunk of Israel’s military is paid for by the USA. Not to mention the customary freezing of all Israeli assets within Washington’s reach.
X~S-Both sides have nukes. Both sides know each others tactics. Its not as clear cut as it seems.
– Ok, Israel may be more advanced than India(though India has done open testing) but you can’t think Israel is a nuke threat to continental USA. Israel could try to play “spoiler” and make the war painful or the ME uninhabitable but there can be little doubt as to who would win.
Whack-a-Mole-*On a man per man basis I’ll take Israeli soldiers of US soldiers. I’m not saying US soldiers are poor by any means…just that Israeli soldiers seem among the best in the world. Witness the last few wars the Israelis fought. *
I dont know. They might have lost some of their battlefield edge working the “domestic war”.
No, it’s clear cut. The US would have available troops and the transport to get them. The US would also have air superiority within a matter of time. And I’m not saying that the US would walk over them, just that they would win. The US has just about every advantage in the fight - numbers, technology, air, sea. Israel’s special forces are probably better, and their troops may be better one on one, but it wouldn’t matter in the end.
Nope, they’d jump in. Chance to avenge '67 and '73. Get the Israeli monkey off their back. Expect an attack immediately on their south and eastern borders from Egypt and just about every other Arab country.
I’d bet that with careful diplomacy U.S. could defeat Israel without losing a single soldier. I’d bet that the Mid East countries would willing to take the “enemy’s enemy” standpoint with the U.S. and join them in the war.
Even without Muslim support, there isn’t much comparison. Israel may have better troops but we have so many more citizens it doesn’t really matter. This also applies for everything else. Israel is phenominal for its size but against a country 50x it’s population and 200x its size it’s pretty hard to put up a fair fight. Napoleon could beat armies twice as big as his but this is just so much more than that.
It’s a ridiculous premise, similar to asking what would happen if Canada attacked the United States. It’ll never happen.
BUT… If it did, the U.S. would wipe the floor with Israel. For one simple reason - Israel has no effective defense against U.S. cruise missiles, and Israel is very small geographically.
Israel also has a very limited ability to project power. It doesn’t have the logistics for a sustained long-distance war in Syria. Israel’s armed forces are built as a defense force.
Here’s how an all-out war between the two would go:
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Cruise missiles hit all Israeli airports with bomblet payloads, rendering all runways inactive.
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Once the Israeli air force is grounded, U.S. begins precision bombing of Israeli military targets (see: Iraq)
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U.S. invades Israel from Iraq, with the cheerful aid of Syria and Lebanon. As in Iraq, the IDF can’t manoever without losing troops and weaponry to close air support.
Now, Israel would do a hell of a lot more damage to the U.S. than Iraq could muster - enough damage to make this a ridiculous scenario even if they were mortal enemies. For example, Israel has a nuclear ballistic missile sub or two. So as soon as hostilities start, the U.S. probably loses every carrier group in the region. That sharply limits U.S. air power, requiring staging aircraft from land bases in Iraq and Lebanon.
However… The U.S. wouldn’t allow that to happen, so before hostilities opened I’m sure the U.S. would let Israel know that any nuclear weapons aimed at carrier groups would result in nuclear attacks on Israeli population centers.
And that’s the last reason why this is a ridiculous scenario - a conflict between the U.S. and a desperate nuclear power would probably end in nuclear detonations. Both sides know this, so a war won’t happen.
It never having occured to the US to surround each carrier with cruisers, destroyers and frigates or to task any of their fighters to air defense.
USA would of course win, primarily because so much support for Israel comes from either the US government or Jews who are Americans before they are Jews. The USA is so widely admired in Israel that there would have to be a major change of public sentiment in order to get the Israeli public behind this. It is a wholly unlikely scenario.
But, the entire US strategy to date has been predicated on total air superiority. This would be hard fought in Israel, and the US would have to do some serious shifting of strategy in order to gain and hold total air superiority. The US would probably not at first be able to use laser guided munitions, the Israelis could probably knock down at least a few Tomahawks and airplanes with their antiaircraft missile systems (Arrows, etc.). Probably the only thing in which the US would quickly overwhelm the Israelis is in naval power.
Also, urban warfare would be a nightmare. The entire Israeli population is well trained and armed. There would be few mass surrenders, as Israeli nationalism is alive and well, behind a core concept which has not been weakened by decades of tyranny.
And Israel would not hesitate to go nuclear if it was on the verge of loss.
It would be ugly. The US would win, but I don’t think it is a war that either side wishes to fight.
Huh? Ok, nukes, sure. ICBMs, possibly, but nuclear subs with nuclear missiles? Who built them? When? Where?
In other words, if you’d be so kind, cite?
Buh? Given the noises coming out of the administration of late, you think that the USA would go against Israel to defend SYRIA?
No way, man, no way.
Well, why not? According to you, we control the media as well. Now we just have to wait for you to post that we control the banks, schools, arts and government and then I believe we’ll have a clean sweep.
Zev Steinhardt
[hijack]Several old Jewish men are sitting in a park, all of them talking except for one who sits quietly reading a neo-Nazi magazine. Finally, one of them asks him, “Frank, why do you read that crap?”
Frank answers: “When I talk to you all I hear about is how hard it is to be a Jew. When I read, this, it tells me that I’m rich and powerful and I control the government…”