Sorry, David B, but I think a democratic republic’s voters should be able to cast ballots for the candidates of their choice without being influenced by premature exit polling, especially when such polling is done for no higher reason than to make the networks money. If even one voter stayed home Tuesday because of the exit polling, that is one voter too many. I really don’t want to see a new law; I want the media whores to exercise the responsibility of a cabbage.
Incidentally, one always hates to contradict a Constitutional scholar like yourself – I mean you’ve argued so many cases before the Supreme Court – but exit polls would be protected under freedom of the press, not freedom of speech.
Well I’m not too sure. They are seriously considering a lawsuit to force another election, since the ballots probably broke state law (some obscure provision that you supposed to mark the ballot on the right) and if not, it was confusing enough to cause concern. Especially since they had to throw out those 19,000 ‘double’ punched ballots. I’ve heard on CBS News now that Bush’s lead has shrunk to under 1,000.
Bush’s lead has shrunk to 971 - Gore picked up a few hundred votes during the recount. This begs further questions:
Will there be a re-vote in the disputed district in Florida? Will it make a difference? What about those absentee ballots?
Will there be a re-examination of close races in other states? If Gore lost a state by 2,000 votes, yet picked up votes in a re-count in Florida, wouldn’t it make sense for them to look for voting irregularities there and start demanding re-counts?
I think it would be a remarkably classy move on the part of the Republicans to make sure the election in Florida is straightened out, even if it means losing. It would certainly earn my respect. If they let the vote stand and win, they have won by mistake–and if you think having lost the popular vote will make Bush an ineffective president, how bad will it be if questions remain about his victory in the electoral vote?
As I mentioned in another thread, it’s time to see if Bush means all the talk about “restoring honor and dignity to the White House”.
On another note, even though I disagree with the sentiment, we need bumper stickers: “Blame Me–I Voted For Nader”.
Dr. J
PS: If the Republicans are smart, they’ll get on their knees right now and spend the next four years begging John McCain to run in 2004. He would have run away with this election.
According to what I’ve heard, which isn’t much, it seesm Bush will take Florida.
Since I live in Ohio, my hands are clean.
The Green party will grow, as I plan to do all I can to help it.
Media response.
I can’t begin to estimate to what extent the premature calls might have affected the race, but it does seem stupid to “call” a race before the votes are counted. Sure, you can get away with it sometimes (Alaska, etc…), but, like Sam Stone indicated, I saw races being called with 0% of precincts reporting. When Michigan was called for Gore, Bush was actually up in the raw vote! The call was made on a projection in spite of actual vote totals. It worked out in Michigan, but see Florida for a case where the system breaks down. And possibly the Washington Senate race. Oh, yes, they called that one for the Dems too. It may fall that way, but right now it looks like Gorton will take it.
Re-vote.
But that’s not the way it works in our system. Like it or not, there is no contingency for a second election if one doesn’t like the results of the first. Except in the case of outright fraud, voter mistakes can not be rectified after the fact.
I’m sure there are invalid ballots in every box in the country. That’s just a fact of how elections go here. People make mistakes or get confused. One or two may deliberatly cast a bogus ballot in some sort of protest. But it is their responsibility to get it right.
Eventual winner.
The only way I can see Gore being the next president is via the courts. I feel it would be a very unfortunate to seat our next president this way. I’m all for a recount in a close district. But once the votes are tallied, that should be it.
Does it really surprise anyone that people would file a lawsuit over the results? How hard do you think it was for the Democrats to find a few people who feel disenfranchised? “Ok, anyone who thinks they may have made a mistake voting, let us know and we’ll find you a lawyer.” Give me a break.
To his credit, all the controversy seems to be driven by the press and wailing, desperate Democrats, not Gore. One would hope he would do the right and gracious thing and accept the vote tally. Can anyone say it would serve him well to initiate a possibly lengthy legal challenge? Sue for the presidency?
Racism
I don’t even know what to say about Jesse Jackson and his claim that the voting process was racially flawed. Ok, let’s say that some black people got confused. Why should their supposed confusion be treated differently than anyone elses?
Reuters just announced that 400 votes were not counted on election night in Pinellas County, FL, but were discovered on the re-count, and they’re now conducting a second re-count to doublecheck.
A few hundred here, a few hundred there… this election’s going to hinge on one frickin’ vote.
Somehow with the democrats reputation of voter fraud, I don’t think they want to take a close look at ALL the ballots in the state. IMHO (of course) this would be a losing proposition for them.
I would just like to point out that the popular vote has not been settled yet. Bush has not lost it, Gore has not lost it, they are still counting, and it is DAMN close.
If it’s a tie, someone somewhere said that FLorida chooses it’s winner by lots. I just **KNOW ** that’s not true, but I can’t seem to find out a definitive answer one way or the other on what really does happen.
If Florida can not award it’s Electoral Votes, then this decision goes in to the House of Representatives.
divemaster, if you are going to bring up Jesse Jackson’s claim, it would be wise if you could actually do a bit of research before you dismiss it outright.
The claim, as reported by ABC News, is that blacks in some southern states that either there were no more ballots, or that polls were closed when neither were true. Also : “Poe told ABCNEWS.com Democrats had received reports of intimidation of voters in the largely African-American precincts of Wakulla County on the Florida panhandle. Reports suggest “highway patrol troopers were stationed outside of those precincts with lights flashing and ticketing people,” he said. “It was bizarre, it was like going back into the early 1900s,” he said.” I don’t know whether or not this is true, but I’m not going to dismiss it outright just because Jesse Jackson has decided to get involved and investigate.
A caller to a morning radio show this morning suggested that the solution is to make Florida’s ballots look more like BINGO cards so the electorate can understand them.
Bush will take Florida methinks mixed feelings either way. It’s funny how most people who touted these two as the worst candidates either party has had in years are now so pro-candidate. I’ll exclude myself from that number and endure four years of Bush as opposed to four years of Gore. Two flavors of ice cream, same nasty after taste.
Why anyone thinks Gore (if not elected) or Bush (if he somehow looses) should be selected by their respective Parties for a 2004 re-match is beyond me. I’m sure there are some stauch supporters of Gore and some of Bush, but my reading of the threads has shown a near ambivolence to both and most debates were on the Party platforms, not the two juggling clowns that represent them.
This isn’t the first or only place where ballots have been potentially confusing, I would feel the same way about things like Missouri electing a dead Democrat. It’s done, the time to protest was before the election, get involved in your local government if you don’t like it.
I think it is irresponsible and detestable that anyone would attempt to hold up the government over this matter, assuming that such suits could continue past the innauguration date. Maybe it’s all a ruse to keep Clinton in office another four years? I’d even be for that.
I have slightly less respect for someone who doesn’t go out to vote because the media says their ‘vote doesn’t count’ than for someone who draws up a ballot form to make it confusing for senior citizens. If you are going to let the media decide your vote, sit back and suffer whatever the rest of the population gives you to live with for the next four years. You have noone to blame but yourself. Voting is a priveledge and it is sad that 105 million voters in a country of 250 million is a great turnout (I don’t know if those numbers are accurate, I’m sure someone will correct me if not)
FYI, divemaster: Under Florida statutes, “electoral fraud” doesn’t have to be deliberate, so long as it subverts the will of the people. For. What. It’s. Worth.
In late-breaking news, reporters converging on Palm Beach County to cover the ballot question that may affect the choice of President have noted several sightings of what appears to be an albino bat carrying human body parts. The significance of these reports was not yet apparent.
Unfortunately, like 1876, this election is going to go down in history as “tainted” – whether there is any validity to the claims of erroneous votes in Palm Beach or not, whichever candidate wins, whatever happens. And I would not want to be either Bush or Gore, no matter the result, trying to forge an Administration and lead the country with half of it thinking he took it by fraud or error.
Just to play Devil’s advocate, I have to point out that the 1960 election was just about as bad. Nixon decided not to go to the courts, even though MANY people thought that the election was rigged.
Kennedy managed a pretty convincing mandate anyway.
JustAnotherGuy, you’re not suggesting that that ballot was deliberately designed to be confusing, are you? I haven’t heard that alleged by anyone connected with this affair.
In hindsight, apparently they were confusing (If a large number of people say they found it confusing, then it was. By definition.). It’s been alleged that the design was illegal, but this article speaks of Florida election officials saying otherwise.
I still think that, at first glance, the ballot seems fine. I can also see how a fair percentage of voters might screw it up.
They had what they thought was a pretty good reason to go to the butterfly layout: using a bigger font so that it would be easier to read.
To blame this on the Palm Beach County election authorities, or on the individual who certified the ballots, is completely ridiculous, IMO.
mixed feelings either way. It’s funny how most people who touted these two as the worst candidates either party has had in years are now so pro-candidate. I’ll exclude myself from that number and endure four years of Bush as opposed to four years of Gore. Two flavors of ice cream, same nasty after taste.