Why would that person take a lie detector test? Most people who tell ghost stories are probably mistaken, not lying. For example why couldn’t this person have had a dream when her parents walked into the room?
What are you blabbering about now? No one has brought up a lie detector test.
It’s been a long time since I saw that movie, but I thought that Jeremiah Johnson went through the graveyard once, on the way to save someone’s life…and then came back the same way. All the skulls’ mouths were now open, as if they were screaming.
The Indians had changed the skulls, to indicate to Johnson, “We’re mad at you.”
The horse wasn’t spooked: Johnson was spooked, and with good reason!
(Um…unless I’m remembering the scene incorrectly? Anybody?)
Good movie, and very scary scene.
qualifies as a girls account of a dream/halucination - nothing more.
But her stuffed dog fell over to the side! Clearly, only a supernatural entity could cause that to happen!
(Yes, I’m being sarcastic.)
How delightfully quaint, by the way, that the Catholic Encyclopedia mentions “the phenomena of modern Spiritism” among the “facts” which support the “hypothesis” that “fallen angels really exist and are permitted to try and tempt the sons of men.”
There are different kinds of evidence: forensic evidence, hard (smoking gun) evidence, Eye witness evidence, circumstantial evidence, physical evidence, observation evidence, scientific evidence, and maybe more.
Looking at evidence that spirits exist. Spirits defined as non-corporeal Beings contrasted with the material body. Ghosts are the same as spirits with the same definition.
Photos of ghosts exists in large numbers.
People report sightings of ghosts also in large numbers.
Communications with ghosts.
Planned communication
Psychic mediums can channel ghosts, many books have been written by this spirit communication.
Richard Bach channeled "Jonathan Livingston Seagull" a book used to teach children.
Pat Rodagast channeled "The Emmanuel Books"
Dr. Helen Schucman channeled "A Course in Miracles," she was an atheist.
Jane Roberts channeled "The Seth Books.," seven books of almost a 1000 pages each.
these are only a few of the major books by authors who channeled them. The list could be
hundreds long.
Unplanned communication
Pre-birth experiences
Near death experiences, verified by staff present.
Visions
these experiences number in the millions
Communication by tool or device
Tarot cards, crystal ball, stones, numbers, tea leaves, letter board and many other devices
these items can be hit and miss depending upon the skill of the user.
There has never been a culture or society that didn’t believe in spirits or ghosts.
There has never been a culture or society that didn’t believe they would live after death.
This is only a small part of the spiritual culture throughout the world, and I do believe in my
personal experiences and always will, they have saved my life.
Discernment is important to understanding the facts … I think she saw what she saw and reported it as such due to the fact that this never happened again in her life and she reported it 31 years later.
I believe that even dreams are spiritual … they are never physical unless you sleep walk that is or do violent things in your reduced awareness state of mind.
Nightmares are spiritual, visions are spiritual, interpretation of dreams is spiritual, speaking in other tongues is spiritual, prophecy is spiritual, healing is spiritual, casting out demons is spiritual, lying is spiritual, hence the word lying spirit … ought oh I see the caution flag coming out.
as for lie detector test … all of the best agencies of the federal government use them to monitor their own agents as it has been reported by the CIA checking to see who has leaked information to the press about that problem in Libya. Sure lie detector test are not allowed in a court room for the most part or are they?
Yes now I remember thank you Trinopus
But brings up another point horses do get spooked and animals do sense things that humans do not.
Speaks for itself…and yet says absolutely nothing.
There’s a lot of redundancy in this list, but what matter is that (in the best case) there is a very high volume of very weak evidence for ghosts. There’s no evidence that can’t be better explained by something else.
That’s more a definition of what a ghost isn’t than a definition of what it is.
It doesn’t matter how long the list is. What matters is that there’s no reason to believe this stuff came from anywhere other than the brain of the writer.
This thread isn’t about your beliefs-it is about the evidence for such beliefs pertaining to ghosts, demons and evil spirits.
Got any?
Reporting it 31 years later makes it less reliable, not more. But if we take it at face value, “Is she awake?” “No, she’s still asleep.” makes it sound like her parents came in to check on her and got incorporated into her dream- and that’s it.
I don’t. How does this demonstrate that they are?
Yes, sometimes they get spooked by real things. Other times they don’t, so it’s hard to assign any predictive value to it.
I don’t doubt that she ‘saw’ it - but since we know that dreams work the way she described, thats all this is evidence of.
For it to be evidence of something ‘external’ to her, there would need to be some form of objective evidence for it - there are none - not even other ‘witnesses’ to talk to.
Thats a great belief - but since there is no objective evidence for this ‘spiritual’ world of yours, it means nothing at the end of the day.
Lie detectors are unreliable at best, and if the person being ‘tested’ honestly believes what they are saying, only proves the person is being honest - it does nothing to provide objective evidence for the thing they believe.
IOW, they are useful when you are trying to weed out ‘dis-honesty’ - but only to a certain degree - if nothing else, the ‘theater’ of the lie detector is enough for it to be useful in some circumstances.
But until you can get them to tell you what spooked them - that still doesn’t prove anything - your reading into it to fit your preconceived notion.
I actually learnt how to read tarot cards at one point, since it seemed and interesting thing to do. By and large what I learnt was that the inbuilt interpretations of the cards are vague enough that you can basically use them to say whatever you want on a fairly light framework. If I dealt a tarot hand to you, would you be trustful of the interpretations I drew? While you and I disagree fairly often, I don’t consider you to be a deceitful person, and I would hope you would say the same for me.
Out of interest, do you have any particular response to the points that Joel Osteen is a homophobe whose approach to revelation and knowledge is to charge people for it?
That’s the same advice a friend of mine received when she started writing the horoscope for a daily newspaper in India. “Keep it general.”
Effectively, it’s cold reading, with the added bonus of an acknowledged need for interpretation to allow for any missteps. I don’t know why getting the people you read for to believe you have an actual task to interpret makes the whole thing more believable, but it does!
To be honest I remember him saying in an interview some words against gays. I was surprised to hear that but I believe in time he will accept them. His speech on unconditional love was very powerful and it is hard to believe he won’t come around. Christian teaching has been strong against gays, He was bound to be influenced. Everything in this world has good and bad points, it is our job to choose the good and reject the bad.
But, in the meantime, doesn’t that invalidate his words on unconditional love? If nothing else, it would seem to suggest that, as it stands, he’s either a hypocrite, or he honestly believes that denigration of homosexuality as sinful isn’t a a contradiction with the concept of that unconditional love, which actually would seem to be the more worrying view. After all, if he doesn’t consider that to be a barrier to unconditional love - what else would he be willing to do in the name of his particular brand of theology?
Thanks for your honesty, though. Any thoughts on whether it’s right for him (or anyone, for that matter) to put a paywall between the public and spiritual truth? Isn’t it his duty to share it gratis? Does it mean that he thinks that only people who can afford to purchase his books deserve that truth?
I have never met anyone who practiced perfect unconditional love including myself. I consider it a goal. Something to achieve in life if you can. Only God practices unconditional love. It is beyond me at this time in my life. I don’t think I could love and help a homeless person to the extent of taking him into my house. But I know of a person who did just that, however he could not accept gays either. I can accept gays… Just do the best you can.
Nope. Photos said to be of ghosts exist in large numbers. Not one of them has ever been verified.
Yet not one of those ghosts can ever communicate any actual knowledge. For instance, no medium can ever channel the ghost of my father, and have that ghost tell me some secret that only my father and I knew. The medium can’t channel a ghost that could tell me the combination to his old Post Office Box, or the PIN for his bank account. Funny how ghosts don’t know these things.
Same problem: they cannot communicate any actual knowledge. They can recite platitudes, but they can’t tell you anything real.
For many years, I have kept a particular item on a top shelf in my living room. I have challenged several people who claim the ability to travel “out of body” to come into my living room in their spirit form and look on my top shelf. Not one of them can actually do so.
(Sort of a cheap-jack home-grown Amazing Randi challenge.)
The field is fraudulent; there is absolutely no meaningful evidence for ghosts or spirits.