One other thing…
Even if you were dead-on right about the comedians, that would not prove that Bill is more of a bro’ than Barack, which was your original claim. It’s a stupid question, and trying to prove it is a stupid exercise.
There’s nothing to debate- the cliche is well known to 95% of the country. You’d feel silly posting a cite for someone who doubted you that there was a Presidential election coming up in 2008 right? You’d think someone was trying to take the piss out of you right? That’s my position here.
But on the 0.1% percent you really are unaware of this phenomenon here’s one reference, but one isn’t ‘everyone’, so you’ll need two, or ten, etc.
(first google entry- http://djblackadam.typepad.com/damnitq/2008/01/if-i-hear-that.html)
As we all know Andrew Young was on that “Bill is Black” shtick and I have heard countless Black comedians, radio personalities, politicians, etc., etc. run this trifling “Bill Clinton is Black” game. Based on what? He smoked weed? He cheated on his wife? He can do a ‘Soul Train’ line? He eats fried chicken? All of this is utterly inane.
Actually, I’ve heard jokes about Bill Clinton being black. Not sure where, and I’m not sure from whom. But they aren’t foreign concepts to me.
Of course, I also recognize them as jokes, and therefore, can’t believe anyone in their right mind would actually try to cite them as evidence about reality.
For the fourth time, then why did hundreds of comics, entertainers, mayor Andrew Young, all decide to use Bill Clinton as the basis for this joke with zero basis in truth, that none of them really believe? One huge coincidence, or mass conspiracy?
Nothing like backing up a number you made up with a statistic you made up! I’m bowled over.
Seriously, nobody challenged your assertion that people made jokes about Bill Clinton being black. The issue is what you’re saying the jokes mean. As I said earlier, I understand why the jokes were made and I gave some reasons. But the conclusions you’re drawing from all this are what I’m not sure of. And you’re basing your arguments on stuff like “hundreds of comics” and “every comic on BET” (which you don’t watch) and "Obama used to go by “Barry” and junk like that. Your whole argument is “everybody knows what I’m saying is true, so there.”
When I’m asked for a cite, I generally give one, withdraw my assertion, or say that it is simply my opinion. But like I said, it actually doesn’t matter if every Black comedian in the world made jokes about Clinton being Black. How does that prove that he’s “blacker” than Obama? It simply doesn’t. You may think he is, but that’s one opinion. You should go post that in IMHO if you really feel strongly about it.
I never said anything that should lead you to think that we agree on this. Just because I haven’t argued with you on the prevalence of these jokes doesn’t mean we agree on their ubiquity.
I answered your question already.
It’s not that complicated.
How exactly can one prove or cite one’s figurative blackness- that’s like asking for a cite or proof that one is “cooler” than the other. I didn’t start the thread and am not even sure what the real question in it was.
So, you’re citing channels you don’t watch of comedians you don’t know in a thread you don’t understand for a question you can’t answer?
That is soooo white.
Have you ever been called Mr. Charley or Chuck by a black man who has absolute contempt in his tone of voice? It carries a sting, I’ll tell you that.
Actually, the reason we laugh at jokes is because they have some basis in a society’s given, cultural truths.
Believe me, I spent years studying the rhetoric of television comedy (mostly Johnny Carson), and the monologues and quips just wouldn’t pull off if they didn’t connect to the audience emotionally in some way.
A nation’s humor, perhaps more than any other bullshit we say, is the closest approximation of our subconscious feelings on almost any topic.
I encourage all white folks who think they’re experts on the subject of Bill and black people read this op-ed. Keep in mind that this was written back in Feb 2001, years before Obama came on the national scene.
Are you sure that link helps your side of the debate- the opinion of one angry militant over the opinion of many many others means what, exactly? I can find some loon posting that we don’t have a heliocentric universe, what would that show- one guy doesn’t buy into what thousands of others do, does that make him right? But in this case neither side is “right”- there is no factual answer here, just opinion. Andrew Young, Toni Morrison, Jamie Foxx, etc. all think Bill’s a “bro”, but the legendary Jabari Asim doesn’t- or does, but wouldn’t have a piece in Salon if he did.
I’ll give you “angry,” but what in that op-ed makes him a militant? And Andrew Young didn’t even say Clinton was black.
Militant figuratively, not that he’s arming for a race war.
And yes, yes he did. Andrew Young: “Bill is every bit as black as Barack”.
And now you have come around to Bill is black is a common theme?
Figuratively like the way you watch BET? 
I know the figurative meaning of militant, I just don’t see it in that article.
My bad. I’d only heard the “Bill Clinton has been with more black women” joke.
I’ve “come around” to nothing. I think you should read those posts more closely. I said from the beginning that I know those jokes existed. I disagreed with two things: your comment that thousands of black comedians made them, and your assertion that there must be some truth to them because so many people made the jokes. Like your implication that Obama has no street cred because he went by “Barry” at one point, I think that’s mostly based on sweeping generalizations.
You made that assertion that Clinton has more black “street cred” than Obama.
I, a black woman, challenged this assertion with a “sez who?”
And you respond with a whole bunch of handwaving about jokes on BET (a channel you confess to not even watching, go figure).
You lack the credibility to speak authoritatively on this subject. That’s not really debateable at this point, so I’m not arguing with you anymore because it would be a waste of time. The only reason why I posted that link is to maybe get you to realize that I’m not hardly the only black person who finds the “Bill is black” concept to be ludicrous and offensive. The piece does a good job at explaining how this meme originated and has been perpetuated not just by the media, but Bill Clinton himself…as a way of pandering to blacks. And it doesn’t take an angry militant to see through this.
But go on thinking that blacks think Bill is more of a bro than Obama, if such a notion validates your own Bill worship.
You’re nitpicking an exaggeration that has nothing to do with the main point- thousands of black comedians- there probably aren’t even thousands of black comedians on the planet. Perhaps I should have said most black comedians do a bit on ‘Bill is black’.
But its not just comedians- Toni Morrison I am told is pretty well respected in the black community, as is Andrew Young, Luther Vandross (was), etc. and they and many others think of Bill as a “bro”, or have called him that, is my point. And other then not ever being called nigger, Bill’s experiences IMO and in that of those named above and many others are/were more similar to average black persons than Obama. He may not know the sting of being called nigger, but he’s known the sting of being poor, single parent household, etc.
Kind of like when some blacks said it was stupid to support OJ because OJ “hand’t been black in years”.