Who's privileged? Who's unprivileged?

Great Debates
61

The definition of privilege is not based on numbers. It is simply based on actions. If the majority operates under a condition that is denied to a minority, that group is privileged. Period.

The problem that pops up in this debate is that the word privilege has often been used to refer to small groups with extraordinary privilege and the meaning that some people assign to the word is colored by that experience. If “everyone,” (certainly implying a majority), is entitled to something and someone is denied that something based on a simple fact of their being, then “everyone,” (aside from the excluded party), benefits from the privilege. Numbers do not play a role in the definition.

62

You might want to read the definition that the OP started with:
*
“a right, immunity, or benefit enjoyed only by a person beyond the advantages of most.”*

Of course privilege is a relative thing, but it’s crazy to set the baseline as the very bottom. When you do that, it invites absurdities like describing a very poor family with a home as “privileged” because they don’t have to sleep in a dumpster like a homeless person. Or that the homeless person is “privileged” because they can go to a public library to take a dump, versus those people who have to crap on the beach in India.

It’s better to set the baseline as the “normal” status for any given comparison. You wouldn’t call access to a toilet as “privileged” in the modern day US, as that’s kind of ridiculous.

63

You might want to read beyond the first definition in that link:

4. the principle or condition of enjoying special rights or immunities.

64

I get what you’re saying, but shouldn’t “not getting harassed by the police because you’re driving a nice car” for example, be the baseline? It’s not that the people who aren’t getting pulled over for no good reason have it good so much as that the people who are have it bad.

65

Women are obviously less healthy than men: for example, they die at a younger age, on average.

66

That only matters in what context the term privilege is used. It’s all about the context, no matter what. So it’s all relative really.

67

As a white male, when I get stopped by a policeman, I never worry that I might be injured or killed due to my words or actions being interpreted as hostile. At worst, I might be arrested due to mistaken identity, in which case I’d post bail, retain good legal counsel, and have the whole misunderstanding cleared up in short order. If I openly carry an AR-15 around the neighborhood, the police would politely inform me that I’m making the neighbors uncomfortable. I’d haggle over my 2nd amendment rights for about 45 minutes and then go peacefully on my way.

Put a poor black man in the above scenario. You know at best he’ll end up with a felony charge and at worst he’ll end up dead. The difference is privilege.

68

See, I wouldn’t call that “privilege”. I’d call that how things should work. Just because it sucks for that poor black man, that doesn’t somehow make me privileged because things aren’t sucking out of the norm for me.

And that’s my point- reasonable and normal behavior and treatment isn’t “privilege”, it’s the norm. Privilege is something above and beyond that. Getting into college with sub-standard scores and grades because your dad’s rich is privilege. Getting out of tickets because you’re a hot chick is privilege. Not getting harassed by the cops because you’re white isn’t privilege.

69

You think that two men doing the same thing, resulting in the black man’s imprisonment or death while the white man goes home is “how things should work”? That certainly puts an interesting spin on your semantic issues with the word privilege.

70

? The cite says the opposite. Not that “who lives longer” necessarily gives a good indication of health care spending. Though it should be noted that old people need a lot more health care than others, so if women are spending more time in old age than men, that might account for some of the difference, along with reproductive health.

71

Everything’s relative, you know? If you’re treated in a normal and reasonable manner and someone else is treated like crap, then relative to him, you’re privileged.

72

You’ve got two brothers.

One gets whatever he wants. He gets a big allowance every day. His crappy grades are overlooked, he gets praised when it isn’t deserved, and he gets two desserts instead of one. Because he’s everyone’s favorite.

The other brother is always told “no”. He gets money taken out of his piggybank every day. He’s spanked every time he brings home crappy grades, and he never gets praised. And he doesn’t get any desserts, since he’s always being punished for trumped-up charges. Because everyone hates him.

Which one of these resembles “reasonable and normal”?

Does defining the first brother’s circumstance as “reasonable and normal” address the second brother complaints? Or does it always ensure that the first brother never has to give up anything (like his extra dessert) to balance things out?

73

And that is how it should work. So to avoid the long-winded phrase “things working the way they should work for some people and not other people”, we just use the word “privilege.” And it’s good to remember your privilege when, say, criticizing someone for running from the police.

And it is relative. Bill Cosby (probably) raped 40-some women and was never charged because these women never thought anyone would believe them. Relative to you and me, he has the privilege of mistreating women with impunity due to his wealth and status (and partly due to being a man).

Privilege is a consequence of power differential, not race or minority status or any of the horse-hockey offered by the OP.

74

Grades and praise are not zero sum games. You can give both brothers equal respect.

75

Excellent points, but this issue seems to be a religion to some here, such that whites are born with the “original sin” of privilege, and must atone (through higher taxes or something…)

76

Which posts are you referring to?

77

[bolding mine]

Agreed. The desire for safe zones, constant validation, and echo chambers is childish. It’s a desire to return to the time when your mommy told you you were a special snowflake, everything you did was perfect, nothing bad would ever happen to you, and you deserved love just for being you. Becoming an adult means learning the only person you control is you, and if you want something you are the person who is going to have to go and get it. Santa’s not going to bring it to you.

78

This is not what’s being asked for. This is a straw man.

79

Anecdotal story relating to privilege:

Friend of mine (call her S) is a black female psychologist. Upon graduating with her Psy D, S applied for jobs with various therapy groups. One in particular (a family therapy group) liked her a lot – they had 60 candidates, but they told S that she was by far their favorite. But there was a problem – they were seriously worried about how they would get patients to sign up with her – that many patients would not want a black therapist. They were open with her about this worry.

Side-discussion 1: S is a very intelligent and qualified therapist. Her would-be employers showed no sign of racial bias – and yet they were worried about their business, and that hiring a black therapist might not be the best move for their business. White applicants had the privilege of there being no concern about their race potentially harming the business of the prospective employer.

They ended up hiring her despite these concerns because they were so impressed by her interview (and academic history). They put up her picture on their therapy group website. She is an attractive woman who wore her hair naturally. For the first few months, she had zero patients. Her employers were extremely concerned. Someone had the idea of a new picture – she dressed very conservatively, had her hair styled in a more European (i.e. straightened) fashion, wore glasses (despite no need for glasses), and had the picture taken. Since then, she slowly built up a base of patients and now has as many as her co-therapists (including, paradoxically, an openly racist drug addict who swears that she is the only therapist who can keep him clean).

Side discussion 2: S is a skilled therapist and an attractive woman, but her picture (even when professionally taken) dissuaded potential patients from choosing her as their therapist. Her white co-therapists have the privilege of being able to present themselves on their website naturally (with their natural hair style) without dissuading patients and harming their business.

There is a happy ending – S is very content with her therapy group and has plenty of patients. She’s not a victim and never has been. This is just (in my view, at least) a realistic description of the challenges she faced due to various forms of privilege, or lack therof.

Conclusions: Privilege is generally about society, and not so much about individual prejudice. S’s therapy group shows no evidence of racial prejudice, but because their business is in a society in which there can be racial aspects to things as varying as patients choosing a therapist, they were concerned about hiring a black woman. S didn’t have to just be a good therapist – she had to be the best out of a group of 60, and even then there was a good chance she would not have been hired. She doesn’t just have to dress well and be attractive, she has to chemically alter her hair, wear glasses she doesn’t need, and dress more conservatively then her co-therapists, to get enough patients to be viable.

80

I realize it’s just semantics and that it is all relative, and I do understand the concept, but I think the wording that’s being used pollutes and clouds the issue terribly.

Maybe the term “advantages” wouldn’t be so loaded; I realize that growing up in a white family, that I had certain advantages relative to a black kid of the same age and income level, but calling it “privilege” loads the debate, because “privilege” and “privileged” tend to connote a certain level of undeservedness that isn’t necessarily the case, and is somewhat offensive. So by saying that I was “privileged”, it’s also implying that I was somehow undeserving and that I got special treatment. Which wasn’t the case; I didn’t get anything that 72% of the population wouldn’t have got, which is hardly special treatment or undeserved.

THAT is why I bristle at the term “privilege”- it has baggage that tends to be used to discount and bludgeon the majority. Better to either redefine the baseline of what “privilege” and “underprivileged” mean, or to change the term altogether.