Who’s idea is was it to make churches tax exempt? I mean seriously, have you ever seen the gross margins on some of them?
Anytime the head of a company drives a Bentley and works in a 39 million dollar office building and has his own reserved
parking space he is taxed to death and has to work 5 or 6 days a week just to pay those taxes.
And don’t even get me started on the Hollywood versions of these guys.
Whoever thought it was a good idea to make prostitution, pot and gambling (in most states) illegal, but let us buy,
virtually unchecked, alcohol, firearms and cars? More people are killed by drunk driving, drunken brawls and alcohol
poisoning in this country every year than by train, bus and plane wrecks combined but I have never heard of someone
smoking themselves to death on reefer, having a vagina cause them to wreck their car (unless it was someone flashing
them in the next lane) and kill a nun or gambling made them go blind. Yet because prostitution is illegal and therefore
unregulated, hookers are addicted to drugs, get beaten by their pimps and tie up the police in unnecessary dragnets to get
them off the streets, thus taking time away from catching REAL criminals. Drug kingpins kill people everyday in enforcing
territory of illegal trafficking and people waste good money on airline tickets and gas just to drive half way across the
country to go to casinos. WAKE UP! We need to do things the good ole american way and make them legal: regulate them and
then tax the shit out of them. That way everyone could find something to make them happy without the fear of being arrested,
shot or robbed while doing so. Think how much depression this would relieve, decreasing the already huge demand on our
medical system. Not to mention the huge influx of tax dollars into the federal budget that could go to education and
social security instead of fighting the pot wars, shaking down hookers or raiding illegal casinos. In my opinion this is an
absolute no brainer.
Next on the list: The electoral college. If I ever meet the nut case that thought this up I would smack him silly.
If I recall correctly, true democracy is everyone’s vote counting. Did I miss something here?
Why on earth can someone win the poplular vote but because of some weird twist of the “New Democratic Process” not win
the election. It is no wonder politicians have to beg people just to get them to the polls! If folks were sure that their
vote counted, they would turn out in droves. Just look at a PTA committee election. Folks turn out who have never been to
a meeting to pick who gets to help paint signs and bake cookies. This is another one to add to the “If I only had a brain”
list.
And finally (for now), Congressional/Senatorial vacations.
OK, I am going to my boss on Monday tell him that I decided to give myself a 25% pay raise and then tell him I am taking
off for two weeks to recover from having given myself the raise and after I get back, 6 weeks later I will break for the
holidays and not return until next year. After having told him that, I would have to march my happy ass right down to the
unemployment office to get my next check. Yet, we as Americans just sit here and take it. We are their employer
(or at least we were when our vote counted - see above rant). We need to take back control of our employees
(aka elected officials) and make them work as we see fit and do the jobs we give them. We are not the children they need
to guide, we are the bosses they need to please to keep their jobs. The next Senator with a drawl so long that it could
be woven into an American flag with which to wipe the juices of the fruits of my labor from his chin, tells us on
television that they have our best interest in mind and they are trying to “work things out” for a better America,
I’m going to throw up the putrid mash of political filth they have been feeding me, all over his $300 dollar shoes that
the raise he gave himself, bought.
Psst - its not churches that are tax exempt per se, but non-profit organizations in general. It just so happens that most churches qualify as non-profits.
Gee I’ve never gone to a prostitue but I would think if postitution was legal you could
A) Need a licence to be a prostitute
B) Have to pass a health exam every X # of days to keep the licence
C) If you failed the exam there would be a way of your clients to find out so they could be tested.
This would be better for the public health then having it be illegal and no checks/balances
I agree that all church activities should be taxed.
As for the “non-profit” angle, just how can you say an organization is “non-profit” when it constructs huge buildings with expensive stained glass and gold fittings and supports huge staffs?
That also goes for most other “non-profits”, many of whom have chairmen with greater salaries than the president, and retirement plans or parachutes that most CEO’s would love to have.
Most of the non-profits, just like most of the for-profits, are small businesses. The church I attend has a 2006 budget of less than $300,000. That’s for salaries, maintenance, utilities, office supplies, the works.
The head of the non-profit I just left is making about the same as I made in 2001 – my last year in the profit sector. Not that it’s any of your business what I made, but I’ll say it was a lot less than $100,000. She’s 60 years old. She doesn’t have a pension plan or a parachute. For that matter, she doesn’t have a company car. And the entire board of directors not only serves without any compensation, but they buy their own lunch when they meet.
If you meet the people who thought up the electoral college that means the dead have risen and the end times are upon us. I’d suggest going to one of your non-profit centers of worship.
This survey from a few years ago has 235 of The Chronicle’s 2002 Philanthropy 400 list of nonprofit groups that raised the most money in private donations showing that kind of profit for executives:
This article from a few months ago defends church and other NPO’s salaries, but cites a study of 4,300 charities which states:
and:
So, suggesting that “many” NPO’s have executives with salaries that would make most CEO’s jealous is a stretch, it’s not that far from the truth.
I haven’t the google-fu to find it out (or perhaps just lack the motivation), but I’d be curious what someone like the pastor or the CEO at the LDS temple in Salt Lake City makes per year.
Um… Senators and Congressman ARE elected by direct popular vote. Everyone’s vote DOES count. The Electoral College only elects the President. It has nothing to do with electing Congress.
What many people don’t get is that not-for-profit doesn’t mean they don’t MAKE a profit. Nor do they just try to cover their expenses. It only means that they must re-invest the profits they do make back into the company and not disburse dividends to shareholders. Now, if they want to reinvest those profits into BMW’s for the management, fine, that is legal.
An NPO is a tool. Period. It has no morale value nor good-for-society warm-fuzzies. It has specific reporting requirements and a few other policies that normal companies don’t, but, in the end it is a business tool. Yes, some businesses could not exist without that tool, and thus smaller good-feely companies that deliver food to sick people use it in a way which most would consider “proper.” BUT…like all tools, it can be used differently than intended.
To add to the salary survey above, the difference between NPO and for-profit firms can be huge regarding all of the benefits received. Here in CZ, company cars are taxed, but not for NPO’s. So a NPO manager making 100,000Kc a month getting to drive a new BMW to his company paid health club or the company owned summer cottage is probably doing better than the private sector manager making twice that salary.
NPO’s are not morally superior to private companies. They are a tool, period.
Churches not being taxed…yeah, I personally feel that their are MANY churches out there that are benefitting a wee-bit too much from their NPO status. Sure they could spend their profits on helping out inner-city youths, but that new mahogany-and-gold crucifix they’ve had their eye on would look just splendid above the entrance to their private garage for the church Mercedes Benz vans.
One of the last times I went to church was in the 80’s…I remember them proudly announcing their purchase of German hand bells to accompany their choir to the tune of $13,000 (as I recall). The next week they proudly claimed they had raised over $600 for Ethiopian children. Their right, their profits, but still…
About 10 years ago, Discover Magazine had a very well written article defending the Electoral College. I had it all ready to go in November 2000, so I could defend the system against my conservative friends as I expected Gore to win the college and Bush to win the popular elections. Boy, did I call that one wrong.
In my opinion, If anything about it needs reforming, it is the “winner take all” system most states use to assign their electors. That guarantees that candidates will pay more attention to the big states and all but ignore the smaller states. Thus South Florida gets to dictate foreign policy to the rest of the country.
This cite from the Urban Institute shows that there are more than 1,000,000 NPO’s in the United States. Citing a study of the 400 largest isn’t going to give a true picture.
You might also have quoted this paragraph from the Washington Post column.
But I suspect in many cases, people challenging a pastor’s pay or the salary of a nonprofit chief executive are really trying to find an excuse not to tithe or give.
I repeat my original comment. Most of the non-profits, just like most of the for-profits, are small businesses. No one is getting rich from them.
In all fairness, Congrescritters don’t make all that much. This site says they make about $162,000. Not bad, but they’re certainly not rich as Croesus.
Secondly, it’s a job where you’re in the public eye 24 hours a day, where every word spoken may be tomorrow’s headlines. There’s no real vacation from that.
Thirdly, it’s a pain-in-the-ass job. They just don’t show up and vote every now and then-- they have to spend a great deal of time behind the scenes dealing with various issues.
Yes, politics is a putrid mess, but it’s that way becuase Americans WANT it that way. Your average American doesn’t really give two shits about what’s going on in Washington unless they’re in a moral panic about The Hot Issue of The Day. Americans don’t want a lot of complicated, nuanced debate about ramifications of policies, they want easy answers and immediate action. They don’t want to fix the problem-- they want someone to blame.
Really, I’ve often suspected that part of Americans’ vehement denouncement of politicians is caused by latent guilt over their own apathy.
I’m not arguing that. What I’m arguing (if indeed I’m arguing anything at all) is that words like “all” or “none” are not correct because not all NPO’s are corner churches getting by with next to nothing, but also that not all have executives pulling down 6 figure incomes and receiving perks that rival profit companies. There are examples on both ends of the spectrum.
The only beef I have with NPO’s not having to pay taxes is their involvement with government. If they want to play with politics they should have to pay their entrance fee also.
IIRC, it is something like this in at least some places where it is legal. And I pretty much agree with the rest of OP’s rant. Since you’re a guest, I assume you’re fairly new here. Welcome. Just so you know, much of what you’re saying is what we call “preaching to the choir,” particularly regarding pot legalization and prostitution. In general, I would say at least 75% of Dopers will agree with you on this.
The title of the head of the LDS temple in Salt Lake City, as well as any LDS temple is “Temple President”. And his salary from his work as head of the Salt Lake City Temple is $0.00. Yep, nothing - nada. In fact, every temple president or worker I’ve ever known is a retired individual who, with his wife, spend their own money earned in previous secular jobs to maintain themselves while volunteering their time. That is also true of your local LDS church down the street, everyone there is a volunteer lay person - from the bishop and stake president all the way down to the person who teaches the toddlers.