Why 450 horse power in cars when only 50 actually used?

I had a thought, which is somewhat unusual for me, but now and then, one of note drifts by that catches my attention enough to mull it over for a few minutes.

People, especially men, want horsepower in their motor vehicles and every TV car commercial stresses the horsepower. * That new V-4 gives the New 1999 Zither a full 50 horse power … .* Buy the new Remo SUV, whose V-28 engine produces a full 6,000 horse power, which is just what you need for those steep hills in the rain!!.

Okay. Personal thought here. Horses were/are big. Major muscles and power. They can pull major loads and more horses equal more major power and strength, but something like 100 horse power, meaning 100 horses with 400 legs all pulling together, their strength depends on the something like the 6 to 8 inches of dirt each hoof pushes on, equaling something like 24 to 32 square inches of traction with equals 2400 to 3200 square inches of traction for 100 horses

Hooves, unlike tires, dig wedge-like into the ground.

An average SUV using average wide tires might rest on 4 8x6 friction points, maybe a little more, and have 400 horsepower. Now, follow my ramblings here a little further, but is it not obvious that, for the average car, truck or SUV, the amount of horsepower verses usable surface traction is going to narrow down to something like 4 to 6 horses before breaking free of the surface?

Yeah, tires generate greater hold than horses hooves, but only on good pavement. In sand, horses hooves are superior. Yeah, most vehicles weigh more than horses, but that would only increase the traction point by perhaps one horse taking into the consideration the ‘increasing traction points’ as a tire flattens and exposes more tread surface to pavement.

No matter how you cut it, though, a vehicle only has the available foot traction of 4 to 6 horses before the wheels break free, and perhaps 8 to 10 with 4 wheel drive. After the wheels skid on any surface, horsepower is moot. You can have 400 horsepower and waste 250 of it spinning the wheels, kind of like dragsters do. (Then again, if a dragster could use all of it’s horsepower on the friction points and not break free upon acceleration, the driver would reach the end of the run as something close to pulp in his drag suit. He’d leak out of the car.)

So, why do we need 350 to 450 horsepower in a vehicle that will break traction at the power of 6 to 8? (No, I’m not including specialized, heavy load vehicles like tractor trailers with 10 to 16 specialized wheels.)

I looked at the European average cars which have small engines and use gears to get them up to speed and probably churn out 150 horse power but can get up to almost 200 mph in certain types. Then I look back at the big, V-6 and V-8, gas guzzlers in the States, churning out 400 horsepower on only able to actually use maybe 150 to 200 of it.

So, why do we need major horsepower in our vehicles when we can only use half or less of that power due to physics?

In most cars with 400 horsepower, you’d have to jack them up, take the wheels off, fasten them to braces well sunk into the earth and tie cables to the drive wheels and use it like a wench in order to use all of the horse power.

ONLY ON 4X4s because these figures change dramatically when you go to normal drive cars, which have only 1 actual driving wheel or variable traction, so that cuts the actual friction point used to pull with down by 3/4s of the initial surface. With positive traction, cut it by 1/2.

So, basically in a regular variable traction, front wheel drive car, with 350 horsepower engine, you’re using only the actual friction power of 1 maybe 2 horses. The other 348 are unused or only cut in maybe 50 more to help push your traveling speed up more rapidly. That leaves around 290 horsepower just consuming gas.

Well, waddaya think?

Just for starters, horsepower ratings on cars are taken at high rpm- different for every car. No one is saying that you’re applying all 250 hp when you leap away from the traffic light. Or if you actually do try to, you will of course spin the tires. All those horses are to applied in a dilent manner, the better to get you to, say, 100 mph quicker than the 150 hp car. So there.

First of all, horsepower and horse were only tenuously related at one distant point in the mind of James Watt. Horsepower is a unit of work, equivalent to 33,000 pounds moved one foot over a period of one minute. It is erroneous to imagine actual horses pulling.

Additionally, 400 horsepower is an exageration. Even the most powerful of SUVs rarely have more than 200-240. The idea of a 150 horsepower passenger car reaching 200 miles per hour is ridiculous. Most cars would flip over or become uncontrollable long before that, and anyone who has driven a 4-cylinder knows that they often strain to maintain highway speeds. A very select few cars are designed to exceed 100 miles per hour, and those capable of speeds beyond 150 require a greater investment of money and driving skill than most people have.

You can easily refute your argument yourself. Test drive a four cylinder minivan, and a six cylinder model. It will be quite clear that the six cylinder model is delivering a good deal more power to the road.

Your calculation that a car uses only 6-8 horsepower because of traction is wrong. A car that has traction, i.e. is not spinning its tires, is putting all of the horsepower it is producing to use (barring that lost to heat, etc.). The fact that a car can maintain traction at speed throughout the power band refutes your argument.

Please go to http://www.howstuffworks.com and look up horsepower. It will help you to get a better hold on the concept, along with a chart to help illustrate the differences.

Well I leave the horsepower stuff to the car nuts. For me the analogy is like stereo equipment. Yeah, it has more power than I can actually use. But you know what, all that power makes is sound pretty good at regular levels without distortion.

Yeah, they could make a car with a top speed of 65 mph, but it would sound like it was going to break apart every time you get on the freeway. I have a POS that sounds just like that. More horsepower, better responsiveness at all speeds.

  1. Hills.
  2. Groceries.
  3. Passengers.
  4. Anything else that requires strength to use.

Think of it this way… 50 horsepower will keep you going, but it won’t do a very good job of GETTING you going. Your acceleration will be work dick ('specially with a heavier vehicle). While 450 horsepower is excessive (indeed, I doubt you’ll find many cars with even half that), it results in the car suffering less.

Additionally… one horsepower is actually worth about 1.5 horses… just thought I’d give everyone a bit of Bathroom Reader trivia.

Also, as you increase speed a lot of the work the engine is doing is being used to counteract wind resistance, rolling friction, and drivetrain friction. So if you want to accelerate, you need excess power over and above what it takes to counteract all these forces. So if you made a car with just enough horsepower to go 60 mph, it would take forever to get there.

You’re somewhat right that cars often can’t use all the horsepower they have. Look at the 0-6 and 1/4 mile statistics of some of those old 60’s muscle cars. Despite having some truly humongous engines, most of them would be blown off the road by even a moderately powerful sports car today, because tire and suspension technology back then was significantly worse. I had a 425 HP 1967 Camaro, and if I floored it at any speed below 30 mph, the lousy leaf springs in the back would just cause the back wheels to hop all over the place and I wouldn’t go anywhere. And the same goes for top speed: a lot of those old muscle cars had engines that could take the vehicle much faster than was safe considering the tires and suspension.

Cool.
All of you, are, of course, right. I had not considered it that way. :slight_smile:

Well, no, you were just looking at something else… maintaining speed. In that particular situation, you only need a fraction of the maximum horsepower just to keep going (inertia is a wonderful thing, isn’t it?) But the acceleration… THAT’s where all the horsepower went.