Why am I getting all these (bogus?) debt-collection calls lately?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

If your name is at all common, the last 4 digits of your ssn will verify that you are NOT one of my debtors.

Okay, say your name is Joe Hanson. Keep in mind that I run a very small agency. For big agencies, stick another digit in these numbers!:eek:

Anyway, you call in to tell me that I’m calling the wrong guy. Thank you, but when I search for “hanson” in my system, I get 8000 accounts. J hanson gets 5000, Joe Hanson gets 1200, Joseph Hanson gets 500. Halve those numbers if you mention you spell it Hansen. Searching by your address gets 11 results, none of which are active accounts or have names even vaguely similar to any variation of Joe Hanson. Searching for your phone number, in the “home number” field, nothing, in the “work number” field 312 or zero (how big is your company?) in the cell field, in the alternate number field, or the references YOU LISTED “number”, yadda yadda, and if I was trying a POSSIBLE contact number it won’t show up at all ever, because it’s not listed in a searchable field . . . 30 minutes later, we’ve both gone insane, and after the nice young men in the clean white coats take me away, the guy who gets stuck with my backlogged accounts will call you, and you get to do this all over again.

That’s not even mentioning the additional complications if you are a business owner, bookkeeper, registered agent, trust manager or, Og forbid, a female debtor/employee who has gotten married or divorced in the last 6 years.

If you tell me a portion – not the whole thing – of your SSN, I can scan the possible matches to eliminate or verify you as “my” debtor. Last 4 or first 3 are easiest – my software doesn’t put hyphens in, so the middle two are a bit of a PITA for me, but better than nothing.

With certain software (very expensive) I can narrow the search by last 4 of your SSN, and we skip all of the above.

If I have your SSN, we can then skip a lot of the frustration, glance at the possible matches, ask if the first three are <123>, you say nope, and I NOTE the account that your phone number is the wrong Joe Hanson. I (my agency) will not call you again.

If you ARE a debtor in my system, just not the one I left a message for, there’s a 50-50 chance I’ll notice. Either way, I won’t be calling tomorrow for the wrong Joe.:wink:

Skiptracing (which is what “finding the debtor” is called) isn’t a one plus one equals two endeavor.

Telling a collection agency a portion of your SSN is NOT an invitation for Identity theft. Seriously. The last 2 of mine is 01. When I call you, I already KNOW Joe’s SSN. I just want to know if I found the person who owes the damn bill.

22

Telling a stranger the last four is REALLY STUPID, because if they already have your name, address and phone, only ONE thing stands in the way of accessing your telephone account, cable account, utility accounts, internet access account and maybe others: the last four digits of your SSN. That’s all they ask for when I call up those services. Give me your last four and I’ll cancel all of your accounts in minutes.

The burden of proof is on the collection agencies to find the right person. That’s their job. Calling someone who MIGHT be the right one is nothing but harassment. If they want your help, tell them to make you an offer of $. Is the info you can give them worth something? Then they can damn well pay for it.

Collections agencies are the scum of the earth, do more harm than good, and the fact this OP exists is evidence of it.

Oh, and Merry Christmas!

23

That was a joke. A knee slapper. You’re built too low. The fast ones go over your head. Ya got a hole in your glove. I keep pitchin’ ‘em and you keep missin’ 'em. Ya gotta keep your eye on the ball. Eye. Ball. I almost had a gag, son. Joke, that is.
:smiley:

24

If the collector threatens legal action when they don’t intend and have no basis to pursue legal recourse, then you need to call your lawyer (if you have one) or your states Attorney General, or both. That is a massively huge no-no in the biz. Seriously. Even letting you (who is Not The Debtor) know it’s about a bill is way-bad-jujus. Harrassing a third party is beyond the pale. Please. Ethical agencies hate sleazeballs more than you do.

BTW – If you ARE the debtor (not Broomstick – this is directed at those debtors who are looking for ways to not pay their bills), just get the agency’s contact info, send us a letter saying “cease and desist.” The debt will be reported to a credit reporting agency, and it is entirely possible (and legal, depending on your and/or the creditors local laws) that your assets may be attached, but I won’t call you, except possibly (depending on local laws) to inform you that the debt will be reported to a credit reporting agency, and it is entirely possible that your assets may be attached.

Musicat – If I have your name, address, and phone number, I already have all nine digits of your SSN, and don’t want to steal your identity. Since I, a bill collector, already have all that info, and have reported your COLLECTION account status to the major credit reporting agencies, verifying that you are you won’t screw up your credit any more than it already is.

I promise, that some where in the country, there IS a Joe whose SSN starts with 365 (Minnesota, I think, but don’t quote me on that) and another whose ends with (number chosen at random) 62. If he’s not my debtor, I don’t care. If I don’t have all that info, and I try to get a VISA card with your SSN, Equifax is going to spit out warning****** substantial difference in address warning****** name does not match SSN *warning Possible fraud attempt (or words to that effect) when CapOne or BestBuy runs the report.

If everything matches, the credit reports simply list all (unpaid, collection, write off) accounts.

Either way, I ain’t getting me a girl robot.

Jesus. Identity theft is bad, but paranoia isn’t helpful. If you aren’t sure you’ve called back a legitmate agency, then don’t give me any info. But don’t get pissy when I can’t get your number out of my system and call you back. As for cancelling your ulitities, I want you to pay the fucking bill. How the hell would shutting off your electricity make that happen?

25

It would improve the cash flow. :smiley:

26

Would you really like to make Collection agencies disappear? Then make sure every one one pays their bills, lives within their budget, has a reasonable budget to live within, and never bitch about your taxes.

Congratulations, you’ve just reinvented communism, except for the part about it not actually working in practice. See, with that system, when a bookkeeper fucks up, you get hauled off to a re-education camp.

Or we Americans could just figure out how to live in a cash & carry society. You pay cash for everything, right? As does your employer, of course.

I would love to retire. Please, reform the country so I can sleep in.

27

That has nothing to do with communism.

28

I expect the general disgust with collection agencies is due to the prevalence of bad actors.
I don’t see any quick solution to that, given the interjurisdictional obstacles in dealing with harassment and the enforcement of assigned debts.

29

Oh right, I have a lawyer…!

You know, for all I know, they DO intend to sue me and THEY think they have a “legal basis” to do so. Why the HELL do I have to be the one to pay a lawyer to have people leave me alone when I’ve done nothing wrong? That’s the problem - they think I’m someone else, or their deadbeat lives at my house. Until I can convince them otherwise they think they’re in the right. The notion that I have to pay a lawyer to be left alone when I’ve done nothing wrong and owe no one any money is just… wrong.

The problem invariably seems to be they aren’t convinced I’m a “third party”. They’re convinced I’m a first party. Or trying to hide the first party.

30

This is exactly what the “alternate number/emergency contact” is used for - especially on credit applications.

In some states, I think it is a law that the person has to identify themselves and why they are calling, even on an answering machine.

31

No! Actually, it is *against *the law in the US for a collector to say why he/she is calling, unless speaking to the debtor. It’s called Third Party Disclosure and violating it is a HUGE giant super no-no according to the FDCPA.

In most jurisdictions, after verifying that you are PROBABLY the debtor (for example – ring ring. “hello?” “May I speak to Joe please?” “Ya got him!” counts for the purpose of Initial disclosure), then I must IMMEDIATELY inform you that my call is “an attempt to collect a debt” but not until. Answering machines/voicmail/faxes are generally considered third party.

The definition of “third party” in the collection biz is “not the debtor.” Collection law tends to be less than precise :rolleyes:

When calling references/alternate number/emergency contacts, we can (in most states) say that Joe listed you as a reference/alternate number. In some states, saying you’re an “emergency contact” is illegal, but, yes, the purpose of a creditor asking for that info is to obtain Joe’s contact info should he default on the note.

Whether or not you are Joe the Debtor, we must ID ourselves when asked directly. That is why I have advised people to ask for the callers LEGAL business name and mailing address. “ABC Inc.” is legal, but Always Butthead Collections, American Butthead Collections, Always Butthead Collectors and Arrogant Bullies Company may all be dialing your number. Determining which is which, whichout crossreferencing addresses, makes life easier for you, me and your Attorney General when dealing with a problem agency.

32

Suggestion, folks: MP64 is just trying to be helpful and explain the process. No need to leap all over him/her. I’ve been through the mill myself once or twice and it pissed me off too. This is how it looks from the other end, that’s all.

Just keep in mind that if push comes to shove, you can’t get nailed for anyone else’s debt unless there’s identity theft involved. No court will attach my wages unless they have a positive ID and I’ve been served.

Sorry MP64, but I’ve never actually met a ‘good guy’ bill collector like you. These days I just tell the guy he has a wrong number and hang up. If they bother me after that I screen my calls til they shove off. My friends know where to find me.

Works for me. There are only three good reasons to borrow. One, to generate enough money to pay off the debt and make a profit. Two, to get a better interest rate on existing debt. Three, to buy the house that you live in (but wait til the bubble is done popping). That’s all.

33

hmmmmm… being new to this area and hearing a disclosure on an answering machine made me think that each state differed. the answering machine is very generic, and one cannot help but to overhear when it picks up and the column is turned up and it happens to be a moment of silence (resident stepped out of room, not home, etc). Funny that I am almost 100% positive that the beginning of the call indicated that they are required by law to inform you that this call is from a collection agency in attempt to collect on a bill (this was a recording, i do believe).

:smack:
Oh! Wait! When I said ‘why they were calling’ I meant in general, non-specific terms… not: “hey deadbeat, you owe $5000 for that boob-job on that stripper you adore so much” (this was an example and by all means does not reflect any such real person that I know of).

34

Yeah, I’ve been getting collection calls for a sister-in-law at our number (we used to be her neighbor too), and the automated calls claim this same thing, that they’re required by law to inform you that this is a collection attempt. I thought that was illegal.

35

Okay-then is my answering machine automatically “acknowledging” that I am Joe Deadbeat because it can’t hang up when the message/collector says “If you aren’t XXX then hang up now; by continuing to listen to this message you acknowledge that you are XXX”? Shouldn’t THEY immediately hang up once they realize that they have reached my answering service and not me?

36

You see, that’s the problem. You THINK you have my SSN, but what you really have is some SSN. Is it mine? Maybe not. But bill collectors have a standard badgering technique that assumes their info is correct, and the gullible who believe it are their victims.

And how do I know someone calling me is a “legitimate” collector? It would be pretty stupid to assume that and volunteer personal information, wouldn’t it?

You said it. I would have nothing against collectors except they either violate the law or skirt it so closely it’s difficult to get them to pay up or stop.

I have been to court over misidentification twice. One I won easily, the other is still in litigation. Since I have infinite patience, the facts are on my side, and I know my way around the legal system reasonably well, I will win that one, too. However, getting damages, which would be the next step, is not likely to be rewarding, and the collectors count on that.

Apparently it’s not necessary to actually serve someone or look at an ID to get a conviction in court, at least in some states. I speak from personal experience. If an agency thinks it can get away with it, there are a number of dirty tricks that are used.

37

That’s where interjurisdictional debt assignment gets nasty, for it introduces delays in the adjudged debtor finding out about the problem, and often the cost of litigation at the other end of the continent exceeds the debt.

38

<snip & bolding mine. I’m female>

Thank you.

Oh, I’ve never claimed to be a sweetheart. I am a professional, who understands that I’m not bringing joy to your household when I call. I will yell back (using FDCPA compliant terminology), and sue your ass if I have to. I also don’t believe that having an unpaid bill = bad guy, or answering the phone = responsible party. There are quite a few of us out there, but the sleazeballs are a lot more memorable.

I also understand that one can catch many more flies with honey than with vinegar, and that getting sued and/or fined seriously fucks up my profit margin.

Asset attachment is not my preferred method of collection (guess why, folks! Very good! It cuts into my profit margin!) but it is frequently necessary. Being nasty to me just makes me much less inclined to work with you, and slightly happier about the cost of my attorney and the process servers.

People, I have good reason to advise you to be polite and REASONABLY cooperative when dealing with bill collectors, and it is not to fill my days with hearts and flowers. I’ve had to deal with moronic collectors – see post #9 for a recent situation about a wrong number, as well having had 8 kids and 2 (now ex) husbands with common surnames. I’m fully aware of the joys of dealing with sleazeballs on a personal level. When I’m at home, I have to do what I’m telling y’all to do to get rid of the sleazeballs, because it works!

Can some of you try remember that I’m the one advising y’all on EFFECTIVE, legal and ethical ways to make sleazy agencies a thing of the past, or at least get them to stop dialing your number?

And please forgive my double posts. I’m having ISP issues at home, and am trying to catch up before the inevitable next crash.

39

Yes, the burden should be on the creditor. However, collection law is (forgive me if I use the wrong terms here. IANAL, I’m a collector) not codified. It’s almost entirely based on precendence. Plus fucking nasty stupid evil Autodialers can not “realize” anything.

The “if you don’t hang up you’re admitting you’re the responsible party” crap is going to be a PITA for a while, and then it’s going to go away. There has been one (maybe two) ruling on the practice, by a judge who is rumored to be VERY creditor friendly in a historically creditor friendly state. There are a couple more cases pending in other jurisdictions, at least one of which is a debtor friendly state, so the “law” isn’t yet written in damp sand, much less stone.

Yet another reason I’m advising people to call the agency, and then contact their states Attorney General if necessary, every time you get a Collection call for which you are not the correct debtor.

If that tactic proves to be legal, I seriously doubt I’ll embrace it. In the states I collect in, leaving a message on an answering machine doesn’t count as “serving notice” so that wouldn’t be cost effective even if it is the right number. As an agency owner, I’d be concerned that it could make my collectors complacent (aka lazy) about accurate skip tracing. My bitch sessions. . . er, I mean networking, yeah, that’s it . . . networking with my cohorts around the country lead me to believe that the “debt acknowledgment message” BS isn’t going to last.

It’s possible that such a message might actually inspire wrong numbers to bother inform us that they are not the debtor, which would be good, but I’m not sure I want to waste time listening to all the “Stop calling me, I’m not Joe! <click>” call backs that would result. I get enough of those without the controversial message.

I’ve slammed autodialers previously in this thread. I hate them, but they are cost effective for large agencies, especially for older or small balance accounts from large clients. Montana regulations on autodialers are restrictive (not restrictive enough, but more so than many other states), I am a small agency, and I have a major hair up my ass about the fucking things. They are probably not going to go away, however. :frowning:

40

It gets interesting when a US company hires a collection agency located in Canada. Which can then, apparently, talk to whoever answers the phone about the debt at the US address. The advantage, of course, is that Canadian bill collectors are just insanely polite by US bill collector standards. :smiley:

I’ve gotten periodically, as recently as a year ago, demands to pay a bill owed by my ex-husband that was incurred after we were divorced, from a company that I have never in my life done business with. I assume they were just fishing, but after I told them the first time the date of our divorce and they still persisted in trying to collect (at least they only did it by mail), I felt guilt-free in chucking their crap. Frankly, if they continue to act after they’ve been given a legal reason why the debt isn’t mine, it’s their time they’re wasting, not mine.