Yeah, that’s what I’ve always thought. Koreans are rarely interested in tracing their lineage because most families have detailed records that cover bloodlines down to the original patriarch. My dad’s oldest brother has several shelves of thick books that show me we’re originally descended from the third son of the founding father of one of the royal dynasties. Of course, as the aristocracy fell apart so many of the noble families sold their records to merchant families looking for a way to climb the social ladder, so no one can really be sure anymore as to how authentic said records are.
Anyway, I was much more interested in my lineage when I was growing up in the States, because it gave me something my classmates never had - a traceable history. When I moved to Korea, everyone had the same thing, so I never thought about it twice.
2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 132. Go back 7 generations, and if 44 of your ancestors are of one ethnicity, and the other 88 are not, then you’re 1/3 of that ethnicity. But I suspect most people don’t know what they’re talking about when they say they’re 1/3 something.
Having recently married a man from Belfast, I heart this a lot. Had his home burned down, shot at, beaten, chased…basically grew up on a war zone. He’s not exactly fond of what he calls “protestant bastards.”
Strangely, that doesn’t extend to me (I was raised protestant). And he often asks me this question and never quite understand why I’m interested in something that my great, great grandfather had running through his veins.
There are a couple of MY answers to this (not speaking for anyone but myself.) First of all no one in my family ever dies. SEriously, that’s an exaggeration, but I knew ALL FOUR of my great grandmothers. All but one of them was born outside this country. So, my connection to, and pride in my heritage was just a natural extension of those relationships.
I was/am particularly close to my last living grandmother (I’m 37, she’s 85). So, having learned her techniques in the kitchen, heard her stories about how “things should be,” have had a lot of influence on me and when someone asks me what my ethnicity is I often say I have an Italian grandmother or that I’m part Italian.
Another answer to your question about why I say “Italian” rather than give the two other Ellis Island stories or discuss the pioneer woman is that I have dark, dark hair and pale skin. So it’s basically to explain that I’m not Jewish, Armenian, etc.
Additionally, I believe there are STRONG cultures…people from certain places like to take those places with them and spread them around. If you’d ever been at a barbecue with my Cousin Vinny and my Uncle Jon-E-Boy, you’d know what I mean. Italian food, games, and sometimes language, takes over any gathering where they’re present.
Humans need something to identify with, to feel bigger than the small piece of the world they see around them. One way to do that is to find the bigger picture that you fit into and expand on it and be proud of it.
A very good point. Some of my forebears were Native American, on two sides, and married white men. I surely wish I knew their reasons for that. But, from the hand -me -down in my family lore, they hid it to Pass with the broader culture. My great-grandfather, in old photos, passed enough in younger days, blue eyes and all, and became accomplished in his job, a postmaster in Los Angeles. As he aged, he looked quite different, and Native American, and was pained with the hiding. He told my mother to remember we have that blood, too, and she passed that down to me. I have remembered, and am grateful for it. But, I do not check the Native American box when it occurs on forms to be of advantage; I qualify under the whatever percentage rate. Because my family did not live on the Rez, and chose to Pass as white, and so be it.
I’ve gotten into arguements with friends claiming the same percentage of Native American blood on this, and they say I should be proud to claim it, and should claim it; it’s a government bonus. I won’t do that; my people chose to Pass as white, and there are so many people who have lived on the Rez who need the help more, who have lived by tribal accordance, and deserve that help way more .
To the OP, We Americans are such mongrels, and move around a lot vs Europeans. The tradition of Where You Come From is a more important Anchor, then, in the odd seas of dislocation. CeilingWhacks says it quite well. In a normal European neighborhood, close family ties in the area may be an age old given, but to us Americans, travel and dispersion is the norm, so connections are much savored.
He’s not claiming to be from there either. “I’m Irish” is understood in the States to (almost always) mean “I’m [of] Irish [heritage].” “I’m from Ireland” is quite a different thing.
It’s an approximation. You can’t be exactly 1/3 something, but you can be pretty close. “One third” is a bit easier to say and to grasp than “five sixteenths” or “eleven thirty-seconds.”
Some European ethnic backgrounds never seem to bring out a lot of interest. The US has a lot of people of German descent and it’s not exactly a big deal to the majority of them. Then again Germans emigrated to the U.S. quite a while ago and there were those pesky World Wars.
Ok, i can understand that when he said ‘im Irish’ he meant his heritage was Irish, not his nationality. But this leads me to another question. On introducing himself to someone, why say ‘im Irish’? Why not say im American? Or Im Irish American if he feels strongly passionate about his routes?
Also is this limited to males? because ive yet to meet an American female who mentions anything like this.
Because “American” is his nationality, but “Irish” is his name for his ethnicity, the specific culture he identifies with. It’s the difference between saying “I’m British” and "I’m Cornish."Also, chances are pretty good that you’ve identified him as an American already by his accent, his clothes, his behavior, and other factors.
As for why no “I’m Irish-American,” it’s just not idiomatic, really. The language is American, designed for use by Americans to Americans, and not really necessary. Plus, it adds psychological distance, and the whole point is about the emotional identification with this ancestral culture.
I don’t think most Americans are all that “passionate” about their ancestry. Lots of people though have relatives (many living) who immigrated in comparatively recent times, so naturally there’s interest in their experiences and background. If your family’s lived forever in the same place, I suppose ancestry might be a more boring topic.
If you really want to get into detective work about past breeding, here’s a new pastime.
Well, no, it’s more like the difference between saying “I’m British” and “I’m Brazilian”. “Cornish” is a sub-set of “British”, but “Irish” is not a sub-set of “American”.
It’s clearly OK for an American, speaking to another American in the US, to describe himself as “Irish” and expect to be understood as claiming no more than a particular flavour of American-ness. In an international context though, that self-description is competing with actual citizens of Ireland, and is bound to cause some head-scratching.
Or a Canadian (we can’t always tell the difference). But he might be an Irishman who’s lived in the US a long time, or an American who’s become an Irish citizen.
But that was my point — in American usage, “Irish” is a subset of American. It is true that the word “Irish” also applies to a distinct nation, and nobody is denying that. But the word has two meanings: the original meaning (relating directly to Ireland) and a derivative meaning (relating to North Americans of Irish ancestry). I’m talking about the latter. You can argue that it is confusing or offensive to the Irish or poorly thought out or just silly; it is, though, in common use and widely understood.
For the record, in principle I agree with you, and I certainly do not identify myself as “Irish” (though my mother still does). I’m just trying to explain a common practice over here.
Talking to other Americans I would say “I’m Norwegian, Irish, Scots-Irish, Native American, and a little Welsh and French,” and no one would blink an eye or think that I’m having trouble choosing a country to live in. But I suppose that it would sound silly talking to someone who actually is Norwegian.
I don’t! But I do have a picture of an Indian ancestor with her teachers and a Real Indian Princess from the School for the Blind in Oklahoma. So if anyone needs a pic of one, just holler.
Everyone around here claims Cherokee. However, my Great Grandmother was full blooded Kaw. She lived white, but among that group, everyone was related to Charles Curtis, Vice President under Hoover. I suppose that is our equivalent.
I think this “hyphenated ethnicity” manifests itself in the 2nd/3rd generation. My paternal grandfathe was from ireland-but he had no great love for the country-it was a place (when he left) of great poverty and heartbreak. Oddly enough, he kept in touch with his relatives-i remember him telling me about “the old country”-“Its a great place to visit, but not to live in”!
I think it’s part of what Dr. Drake said, combined with a certain vague feeling that we had to come from somewhere; or in other words, we didn’t spring up out of the ground in 1776, when the United States came into being.
It’s a little weird to read history books, and feel somewhat divorced from what is described in say… 1400, because your country/ethnicity didn’t exist yet. It’s also kind of weird to have the vast majority of your holidays, traditions and things like that deriving from those of other older, yet contemporary ethnic groups.
I think it’s the same mental process that causes many Americans to be astounded when they’re in a 500 year old building in Europe that’s still in use. There’s just so little in the US that’s anywhere near that old, that it’s a completely amazing feeling. Hell, in the majority of the US, the majority of stuff is post 1850, or later.
There may also be a certain lack of identity involved for some, where their particular state doesn’t have any particularly interesting history or anything, and thinking of themselves as “American” may be too ill-defined. I.e. there’s not much to distinguish many states from each other, and the “American” label is too broad, so they choose something from their ancestry.
This is also a large part of it. If someone came to you and said ‘I’m american’ it could mean you belong to any number of groups with different ways of thinking/cooking/worship.
Food plays a major part in society. So just coming along and saying ‘I’m american’ when you live in the US, could mean you could have sat down in the evenings to arroz con pollo/dim sum/weiner schnitzel/mussels carbonara/chicken masala/falafels/kidney pie. In saying ‘I’m Xxxxx’ they are giving you a better insight into their identity.
