You didn’t come to this board for juvenile bullshit jokes then you came to the wrong board.
And there is plenty of actual posts that are non-joking and completely on topic. There are also plenty of posts that answer your question but with jokes. Lastly, but not at all in the least, your OP has been addressed both jokingly and non-jokingly-- only you probably don’t like the answers you are getting-- mostly that your indisputable facts are actually just the opinions of a jackass.
Dude, the point is that you have presumed that something which everyone else perceives as a narrowminded–and inaccurate–generalization (i.e., a prejudice) is a non-debatable fact, based solely on your own hubris.
The “being a dick” part is not about your tone, or whatever, but in the act itself: in your apparent inability to see that arrogantly holding your own opinion of your own limited experience as superior to actual fact, is, in itself, seen as being a dick. I.e., only a dick would presume such a prejudice were true, and only a dick would blithely describe it as non-debatable.
I know you don’t see this, VCO3, but I hope that someday you will gain enouh discipline and maturity to examine the very real, if relatively innocuous, racism exhibited in some of your posts, as detailed variously above.
What the fuck. Are we reading the same thread? Sure there’s a lot of jokes, but there’s a lot of discussion in here as well. In any case, the problem lies within the wording and tone of your OP, not with the Pitizens.
Keep this up and things are really going to turn sour…
The point in that original OP is, “I’m not here to debate whether or black people are generally perceived to engage in louder behavior in public; that’s a given. Please do not get bogged down in debating whether or not this is true in your experience; it is in mine, and most of America’s as it’s become a common basis of humor, therefore it’s an inarguable point for the purposes of this thread. I’m wondering the reasons WHY that is.”
I was hoping that I didn’t need a laywer to draft up the OP in official Political Correctness jargon like the above; I thought this place was better than that. Apparently, I was wrong.
Psssst…VCO3 - Every word you post is more rope you’re hanging yourself with.
Right off the bat people disagreed with your first sentence. Buy you already knew that because the thread was closed. You’re the one that wanted the thread re-opened and you knew it would be in the pit. Didn’t that tell you anything? Why the pretend shock?
Why don’t you go fuck yourself, rather than continuing to lecture me on what is and is not acceptable language?
If you believe that “black people” or “people of color” or “people who are individual persons who happen to be black” are intrinsically better terms than “blacks,” feel free to use them in your own speech.
When a majority of people agree that a particular word has fallen out of favor and that it’s preferable not to use in conversation, I will consider dropping it, out of respect. But I’m not really interested on being on the cutting-edge of word prohibition just because one would-be language activist on a message board finds himself “cringing.”
Unfortunately, VCO3, lowbrass is right. Stop helping yourself.
I think a wiser question to ask is, “Why do I insist on believing such a prejudice? What fault of logic allows me to reach such a conclusion? What fault of arrogance allows me to describe it as non-debatable? What fault of stubbornness prevents me from examining the larger question this thread has brought up?”
Every single human being is more comfortable with people who look like they’re related to him; every single human being is, with rare but inevitable exceptions, naturally less comfortable, at least initially, with people whose appearance differs from that of him or his family. Every single human being has racist thoughts. Not every single human being, however, acknowledges those thoughts and makes a conscious effort to examine, deconstruct, and overcome them.
A racism red flag, for me, is someone who defensively insists they’re not a racist. An even redder flag goes up when someone outlines an example of racial prejudices (Why are black people so LOUD?) but insists it’s not racism because “it’s true.”
Motives aside, what are you expecting from us? How can anyone offer any rational reasoning behind something that is going on inside your head, especially if it is not our experience? Does that make sense to you?
The “prejudice” is based on daily experience; what “fault of logic” is that? Not just my daily experience but apparently the daily experience of most other people, as it’s a readily-known cultural meme and constitutes a large percentage of mainstream humor (Saturday Night Live sketches about it, etc.). Lissener, you’re a valuable member of this board and a smart guy - why are you acting like you’ve never heard this, and it’s something that I made up? I’m completely serious.
and
ALRIGHT! Now we’re getting somwhere. This is a proper pit thread now.
I was going to stay out of this but VCO3 you are either extremely immature and lack the experience with varied degrees of conversations with Americans outside your own circle, or you are trolling. Simple.
I doubt you are trolling, so it leaves only one other choice. It’s ok, most people grow out of making gross generalizations.
Thing is, it most certainly is not “a given.” That’s the problem everyone’s having with. Like I said in my other thread, I don’t think what you write is particularly controversial, it’s the way you state it. Just like the Mac thread where you basically stated (I’m paraphrasing) that a Mac is 10x more expensive than an equivalent PC, and that why, everyone knows that, and when presented with evidence to the contrary, you were more than hesitant to admit it.
Just because it’s a “fact” to you, doesn’t mean it’s a Fact. Is it black people that are loud? Or is it just the urban underclass, which blacks make up a disproportionate majority? I honestly don’t know. Or is it no fact at all, just observer bias? At any rate, I’m not trying to be extra PC here, or anything, I think that while your perception may be valid and you no doubt believe it’s true, I think one can analyze it in terms of socio-economic status, not just race.
OK, I can see I read more into your statement than was intended. Point remains, but assocation with your remark is withdrawn. Sorry for any presumption.
No problem at all. I think your detailed explanation of the issue was great.
And I think Vinyl Turnip is a smug, arrogant asshole.
Good thing I PUT THAT IN MY O.P. THEN!
Too bad the hysterical have looked past that.
I love this. Now you’re the victim. All you wanted to do was have a nice conversation, and because people have pointed out to you that your approach and assumptions are flawed, now you’re being picked on!
Are you living an existence where you are constantly battling stereotypes? I wonder if you lived in another country, and you heard daily comments about how Americans were violent, loud, egotistical, and so forth, would it get under your skin?
Stop hiding behind “omg teh PC peeplz are silencing me” crap. You presented an OP where you claimed that your observations, and your source for all things African-American, BET, were immutably valid. It was a shoddy OP. Own it and stop blaming others for it. You’re not a fucking victim.
I have a question. Why do White guys always act like victims or their free speech is being challenged when they’re informed that their statements are flawed? Must be nice to live in a world where your opinions are so important, they are synonymous with fact… I suggest you read some Peggy McIntosh and learn a little about White privilege.
I’m done with this thread. What an incredible disappointment. I’m not going to ask that it be closed, because people are clearly enjoying using it as their personal Recreational Outrage Fight Club, but the thread has nothing to do with my OP or me, and I’m not going to be posting in it anymore.
Dude, are you this high strung in real life? Just take a deep breath and relax for a second.
You didn’t say poor people tend to be loud. You said blacks are loud. That’s what I’m picking on. And you didn’t leave any room for argument, presenting it as self-evident fact, when it’s not.
Getting in on this rather late, but the basic point is what was made by pulykamell, above.
One of the quietest people I’ve ever encountered are the residents of Anguilla. Who are black. It’s a really, really quiet island and there is no need to speak loudly, ever. Most people from off the island take a little while to get used to it. I loved it.
There are loud and quiet people in every race and culture. Most Americans are usually louder than average, in my observation. So are most city dwellers, for obvious reasons.
It’s silly, IMHO, to say “blacks are louder” as if it were some inherent genetic characteristic that is paired up with melanin production in one’s DNA.
Absolutely. To the extent that offensiveness lies nearly entirely in the context and intent, and outside of the irrelevant question of whether “blacks” or “black people” was used.
Fine. Should we stop saying “Jews” in favor of “Jewish people”? (If everyone agreed to do that, I’d be cool with it, I have no inherent attachment to either form, but that doesn’t seem to be the way people normally speak. And I think the argument that “blacks” is inherently worse than “black people” on the grounds that “it reduces …” is specious; hey, “black people” reduces them to just a color too, it’s just more wordy about it)
Right, so, you see, the actual “blacks” vs. “black people” difference plays no part in whether the statements are offensive or not.
True, but I really don’t think the term “blacks” is historically tainted. If you walk around saying the antiquated “negroes”, you’ll definitely get odd looks, and we all know “nigger” is generally unacceptable despite whatever meritless etymological arguments one might propose to salvage it, but “blacks” does not seem out of the healthy mainstream, at least in my experience with the term.
Yes, it’s true, pick your battles, don’t let distractions hamper your ability to accomplish your main goal, etc. But on an intelligent messageboard like this, I think it’s alright to make some side discussions now and then; if people seem to be harboring silly and unfounded peeves, I might find it productive to attempt to show them the silly and unfounded aspects of their peeves.