I realize that the very title of my post might seem to some inciting, racist, and fraught with such contentious social and political issues that it can’t fairly be addressed. But this is the Straight Dope, so I am going to be bold and post. So please, bear with me. I certainly don’t mean to incite fear mongering and hatred, but I do think its fair to ask questions about perceived differences amongst social groups. Yes, the question is racial, but that doesn’t make it racist. Generalizations and stereotypes have value in that they can be often have “truth” and therefore offer some level of insight into social behavior and norms within groups.
I ask this seriously because it is something I’ve noticed over a number of years of city living. Groups of (mostly) black/urban teens are noticeably louder and more aggressive (yes, loaded word!) and often cause more of a disruption. On a daily basis I see and hear local kids shouting and hooting loudly enough (usually in jest) that people actually get up to look out of their office windows. I’ve also seen police called time and time again to a local convenience store where large groups of kids become unruly and begin to shoplift or otherwise disrupt business in some way.
How does this social identity/communication happen? Is it because nobody is telling them how to behave appropriately (at home or in school)? Is there a certain entitlement to act loud or draw attention which has some type of social status within a group? Is it because too many well meaning adults are telling them how to act, and so they are letting out their energy when they aren’t in a restricted environment? Is there some connection to urban or hip hop culture that promotes loud displays of behavior in public? While some people may bristle with these questions, I do think it is fair to say that many adults (black and white alike) witnessing these incidents feel that the behavior of these kids is significantly more disrespectful and unruly compared to the public behavior of other teens. I always see adults on buses or the sidewalks averting their eyes in these situations-because they often do create discomfort for bystanders and passersby.
Please spare me a lecture on racial sensitivity. I am asking honest questions and I hope others who have (or have not) had these experiences will share their perspectives.
spifflog- Not to the same extent black kids are. And to further specify, I usually see it with groups of boys. I am not suggesting that someone being black means somehow he/she is inherently louder, but obviously many urban kids are black. Obviously many kids do not behave this way, but then again, when it happens to be particularly loud or disruptive behavior, yes, it happens to be black youth, from what I’ve seen.
Up here in Portland, ME (not very urban, I grant you, but urban enough) most urban teenagers are white, and I assure you, they are just as loud as any other color teenagers.
Yea, I suspect its just a selection effect. Most of the teens walking around in urban areas are likely to be black, and groups of teen boys are often loud and obnoxious.
In anycase, I’m white and grew up in an almost completely white city, and we got dirty looks and such all the time for loitering around store fronts and street corners yelling at eachother, goofing around and generally being inconsiderate to other human beings trying to do business.
There are some cultural traits that more prevelant amongst African-Americans, but I don’t think being obnoxious teenagers is one of them.
Since this is GQ, I’d say we need to go back and verify the facts asserted by the question before we try to answer it. Confirmation bias is pretty sneaky in how affects the opinions of people and the things they believe are self-evidently true.
Yes, as I keep pointing out, before you can ask WHY something is true, you need to demonstrate that it IS true. “This is something I seem to notice” doesn’t really qualify.
And if you type “is google g” into the search bar it autocompletes it with “is google god?” and “is google gay?”. I would suggest not using autocomplete as evidence.
Bad analogy. The addition of that letter g narrows down the possible results, first of all. Second of all, just search for “why are black people so loud” and you’ll see that shitloads of people are discussing the question. Again, as I said before, this doesn’t mean that it’s actually true, but I’d say it does mean that may people perceive it to be the case.
I don’t know if you were ever a teenager, ecoaster, but I was one, and I can tell you that teenagers generally:
Are rapidly changing from tiny children, oppressed by the adult overlords, to nearly full-size people who are in the best shape of their lives
Believe that they are invincible
Have yet to fully develop their prefrontal cortex, which regulates self-control
Highly value their social status among their peers, to the special exclusion of parent-like organisms (read: adults)
Have no actual responsibilities, such as a mortgage or children
So yeah, they are essentially a bunch of jackasses, even more so in groups. And on top of that, if they are black in an integrated area, well that just multiplies their ability to push some buttons. Which, if you’ll refer to the above list, is something that teenagers love to do.
I.e. if the people you hang around with and consider your peer group are loud or rowdy, you’re very likely to be loud or rowdy as well, to fit in. Hence, black urban teenagers are so loud because black urban teenagers are so loud.
It’s not a bad analogy, you just don’t like it because it undermines your case. And perception is not reality. Until someone makes with a study that shows black people are measurably louder than other groups this is just a racist question masquerading as curiosity.
It is a horrible analogy. Type in “why is google” without a letter at the end, and you get a bunch of pretty reasonable questions. Why is Google successful? Why is Google called Google? Why is Google Chrome so slow? Etc. It’s clear that a lot of people are asking these questions. The addition of that random letter g that you included (why did you do this, anyway) changes the possible results from “any question about Google” to “only questions about why Google is some particular thing starting with g.”
Your analogy is a lousy analogy.
This is the largest and most commonly used search engine on the planet - the search engine through which millions of people are putting their queries every second - and if you just want to brush away my observation (which was only that many people think blacks are loud, not necessarily that there’s any truth to it) because you think the Google autocomplete is not evidence of anything (except evidence of the questions that billions of people are searching for answers for,) then fine.
Thanks to Argent Towers, I now have a fun and enlightening new pastime: Typing “why are ______ so” for various kinds of people into Google and seeing what autocomplete comes up with.
For example, “why are teenagers so” yields
why are teenagers so stupid
why are teenagers so mean
why are teenagers so moody
why are teenagers so tired
why are teenagers so angry
why are teenagers so lazy
why are teenagers so rebellious
why are teenagers so depressed
why are teenagers so difficult
why are teenagers so disrespectful