Even though overtime depends on business needs and staffing, it makes me wonder why certain jobs don’t offer or require overtime, since it may not be necessary, depending on the situation.
For example: blue collar, warehousing, truck driving, and various medical careers offer and require overtime, while a majority of white collar jobs & service/food industry jobs may be more strict about overtime, depending on the job.
Furthermore, it makes sense why certain jobs may not require overtime, but at the same time, I feel like occasional overtime isn’t a big deal IMO, especially when it may be necessary depending on how much work needs to be completed for the day or when a business is short staffed.
For one thing, white-collar jobs are often salaried jobs, rather than hourly wages. In such a job, you get paid $X per year, not $Y per hour worked. And, in many such jobs, the fundamental assumption is “you’re paid to do the job and finish it, not to punch a clock,” and thus, it’s often expected that, if more than 40 hours a week are required, then you do it. And, you don’t get “overtime pay” for it, because you’re salaried, not hourly.
Some employers may recognize “hey, you put in 75 hours last week,” and may give you a bit of “comp time” off; conversely, if things are quiet, sometime you can slip out early on a Friday afternoon. But, in such jobs, working more than 40 hours a week not only doesn’t get you any more pay, but it’s often the norm (for better for for worse).
I’ve worked at white-collar, salaried jobs for my entire career. And in every one of them, there have been times where I worked nights, and worked weekends; I never got any additional compensation for that, because that kind of work is the norm in the industries where I’ve worked. Frankly (and even worse), the general expectation is that, if you really want to get ahead in the field, you will work your ass off, which often means 60+ hour weeks.
In the US, there is a distinction between “exempt” and “non-exempt” employment. Non-exempt employees are covered by the federal Fair Labor Standards Act, which guarantees a minimum wage and payment for overtime work (over 40 hours/week). They are generally, but not always, paid by the number of hours they work. Exempt employees usually are paid an annual salary and are not covered by the FLSA, so their employer is not obligated to pay them for overtime work. There are rules to determine which jobs can be classified as exempt vs. non-exempt.
In the past. The IRS has cracked down. Now they must be legit managers- with the authority to hire and fire, etc- or artists (which can include computer programmers-as well as some farmworkers, etc salespeople who earn commission and a few others.
Employees must also meet one or more of the DOL’s job duties test to be classified as exempt from the overtime and minimum wage provisions of the FLSA. Exempt employees tend to work in roles that require little direct supervision and require special skill or knowledge. They may supervise other employees. Exempt employees also typically have the authority to make suggestions or recommendations about their work, although a higher level of management might make a final decision. Keep in mind that some jurisdictions have additional rules regarding who qualifies as exempt vs. nonexempt (for instance, with regards to salary thresholds).
So they cant just say- “You’re salaried” and make you exempt. Also the IRS looks into what happens if you work less that 40 hours- are you penalized? Can you take a hour lunch? Come in a little late? Or take off for a couple hours for a dental, etc appt. That is the other side of “salaried” .
For what it’s worth, every full-time job I’ve ever had (in marketing, market research, and advertising) has been “exempt.” Not all of them have been managerial, but I suspect that all of them qualified under the “learned professional” exemption in that Department of Labor link you shared, as well as the “highly compensated employees” exemption.
Yes, most of my jobs after retiring from the Treasury have been like that also. But none tried “OKay you are exempt so you gotta work a 70 hour week” bullshit. It was more like- “sure take a couple hours for that dental appt, but next week is crunch week so we might want you to work and hour or two late a few days”.
I’ve always been exempt, and I’ve worked a shit ton of unpaid “overtime.” Literally, tens of thousands (and likely hundreds of thousands) of dollars worth.
You’re own cite says “Exempt employees tend to work in roles that require little direct supervision and require special skill or knowledge.” I’ve been an individual contributer in HR for more than eight years now. I spent three of those years as a non-exempt hourly employee as an HR Assistant. While I really didn’t have a lot of direct supervison, my position required almost no special skills or knowledge and I wasn’t really expected to make a whole lot of independent decisions that would affect my department or the company as a while. I was hourly, so I had to clock in and out and I did get overtime. (I was one of only three hourly employees in the whole department.)
Then I received a promotion to a generalist position. While I was still an individual contributor, the position required specialized skills/knowledge and I had a lot of autonomy. I advised hiring managers regarding sponsorship of employees for H-1B visas, employee relations issues, I handled contracts with staffing firms as well as independent contractors, etc., etc. I had the “authority to make suggestions or recommendations about their work.”
Sorry, I guess this is just a long winded way of saying you don’t have to have any supervisory duties as part of your job to be properly considered exempt. You are correct about the IRS did cracking down on employers who were classifying workers as exempt when they should have been non-exempt. Some unscrupulous employers would pay the poor worker the mininum necessary to be considered exempt and work them many hours beyond 40 and it would save the employer from paying overtime. We had a former employee try to sue us for misclassifying her as an exempt employee, but we ended up winning that particular case. It helps that our competitors have employees with similar job roles and they were all exempt employees.
My gf’s job is salaried, plus she’s worked from home since COVID. There will be a Tuesday when she works through the evening until 1 am. But there are also Fridays when I get home at 2 pm and she shuts down her computer and we start the weekend. She has ownership interest in the company, so it’s in her best interest to excel .
Yes, I cut it off- artists and people who have special skills and knowledge like artists. Thanks.
You are correct- but you do if they try to classify you as a exempt “manager”. The Herald Examiner got in trouble for calling its line “circulation managers”= “exempt managers”.
I don’t even want a supervisor position where I work. I’d get an $8,000 raise but it’s not worth it in my opinion. I’m happy being an individual contributor over here.
I’m so glad to work in an environment where working 40h a week is normal, overtime is a rare “couple hours here and there” event, and I can “buy back” the time in the next few days. There’s only so much of my time I’m willing to sell, and I don’t know that there is a salary where I’d accept to work 60+ hours a week…even 45…on a regular basis. My mental health and family life would suffer too much, even for millions. We are comfortable as it is.
I’m not unionized but would join if that became necessary in my role. I support them overall as I’m very much pro workers’ rights and the right to disconnect is a big one for me!
Support your labour unions, vote progressive, normalize a balanced lifestyle. All that extra profit doesn’t go back to you or your society. Fuck that.
I was salaried. And for much of my career, my official hours were 37.5/week. And maybe i really worked more like 40 hours per week. And yes, i sometimes had a crunch and worked more. And there were other times when i maybe spent 40 hours in the office, but some of the time i was reading chat sites or doing a side project of my own for fun. I got my work done. And i did good quality work. But wasn’t working massive hours.
And no, i didn’t “get ahead”. I did work that needed a qualified actuary, but i didn’t run a department. Sometimes i had a couple of direct reports, and other times i was an individual contributor.
Anyway, there are definitely “exempt” salaries jobs out there that don’t demand a ton of overtime.
I work retail, and one of the few controls of cash flow the company has is payroll. I started as hourly but was recently bumped to store manager and am salaried. In the the previous few years overtime for hourly folk wasn’t encouraged, but it was fine when we were at a busy season or for some reason were low on staff. As floor staff those extra hours were definitely nice!
This past 18 mo or so has not been great for the company, really down from last year’s numbers, and so we are severely limiting wage hours. Directive is to staff as lightly as possible without affecting customer service, and absolutely no overtime.
I’m salaried for 40 hrs but I definitely work more. I’m new enough in the position that I kind of enjoy going in way early to get my back office stuff done while it’s quiet and I can concentrate, and then I can be out on the floor for the day. I can adjust my schedule though so that I can grab a half day off here and there. My boss (who was manager and was promoted to district manager) is fine with it, she knows I work my behind off and am not going to leave my staff in a lurch.
Well, while you may require a salaried employee to work over time you can’t consistently ask them to do so without compensation. If you are doing that for weeks at a time the DOL will eventually have something to say about it.
On the other hand, I had a little brother who worked for Wal-Mart for many years and their policy was no overtime. Instead they were in a constant Work faster! Work harder! mode. It was lovely.
Not necessarily. If you have a lot of overworked, underpaid rank and file salaries workers, i suppose it’s possible the DOL might take an interest. But if your CEO works 80 hours a week for most of the year, no one outside him and his family is going to complain.
In my old job working as a security officer, we weren’t required to do any overtime. But because we were often so short staffed and got so many last minute call outs or no shows, we were heavily pressured to work overtime or cover other officer’s shifts when they didn’t show up. It was not uncommon to end up working 12-16 hour shifts.
So my 40 hours a week job ended up as a 50-60 hours a week job. At least it was well paid, with time and a half after 8 hours and double time after 12 hours.
In industries like mine, working long hours is essentially the expectation, if you want to get ahead at your company, and in your industry. If a junior advertising person complained to the Department of Labor, they might win a grievance, but they would probably also find themselves looking into different career choices.
My brother in law works in one of those soul sucking industries where it’s normal to work 80-90 hours a week. He makes a lot of money, but is also basically surviving off caffeine, cigarettes, and too much alcohol.
A few years ago we had a discussion similar to this thread, and he boasted about his (then) salary (I know it’s much higher now). He thought he’d scored a point with me by pointing out that he made twice as much as I did. I replied that we actually make the same money (per hour) but I can take vacation and have hobbies. I’ll grant that he did concede that point.
I love the guy, but his career will be the death of him.
For every penny he makes, someone else is still making several dollars.
I have managed organizations where OT was mandatory for non-exempt employees, and also organizations where zero OT for non-exempts was permitted. It’s all about how tight the budget restrictions are. In times where belt-tightening is critical, and supervisors who can’t get fired, no OT is the policy whether or not it makes local business sense.