It is not a peculiarly Christian thing to oppose abortion. Followers of other religions also strongly oppose it, some sects more strongly than others.
Just because someone believes that creatures, including humans gain a soul at some unknown time before birth, whether newly created or recycled, it should not be assumed that a person who believes that must also believe in a God.
You would be surprised how much this still comes up in western religious mentality...The Question is when does the soul enter into a human !!!
Is it as soon as the sperm breaks into the egg ? Is it after the mass of dividing cells start to form organs and brain cells ? or is it only when the baby come out of the woman and starts to breath on its own ? When does a Human being officialy become a human being ?
Sence there is no hard testable proof exactly when the Soul enters the flesh then its all theroy, Guesses and speculation.
If a man and a woman have sex and she becomes pregnant then I fail to see why they can not have the child as they obviously knew what the consequences were before doing it.
Its the poor rape victims who did not have sex willingly that I feel sorry for.
Rucksinator, “Believer” here. You told me in the last thread to come over here and answer this question. Don’t you think I got in enough trouble over there? I’ve decided I won’t ask questions for a while, but I’ll give my honest answer.
I think the question of when pregnancy becomes a soul/life is an unanswerable one, at least scientifically and can’t really be used for rationale. I do think most Christians believe it’s a little soul from the start. I’m a little backwards. I think the soul is waiting for the baby, not the other way around. A baked potato is still a potato, even if it’s not finished yet.(another in my long history of lousy comparisons). I am against abortion and it has nothing to do with my belief in God. I think it’s a sad loss of potential and a waste of a wonderful gift. On the flip side, you cannot legislate moral beliefs and to do so would only be limiting the availability of abortion to lower income brackets. The people who could afford to would still find a way. People still got abortions before they were legalized, they just paid more and traveled further or on a sadder note, just saw someone incompetent. I am strongly in favor of the open-adoption process. It turns a bad situation into a wonderful gift. I am a hypocrite in some ways because I can’t bring myself to vote for anyone who is pro-choice and in my heart would like abortion to be illegal, but in my head I know that isn’t going to make a bad situation better. I guess I don’t think nine months is that long to inconvenience yourself and if you don’t want the life long commitment, give it to one of the many that do. I have 3 children and not one was planned. I am living proof that contraception even when used correctly can fail. Second baby was an IUD baby, third was condoms, first was the first time I ever had sex and since I hadn’t planned to, wasn’t prepared. So the argument of responsible sex can only go so far, but it would limit the problem. Okay, the summary answer. I think my strong beliefs against abortion have more to do with being a mother than a “believer”. It is a gut response, not a moral judgment. As a believer I’m not worried about the soul of the terminated pregnancy. IWLN
Well Abstanance is the best form of birth control. If you don’t want kids don’t have sex. There is the other option of sertilization.
The problem is sex is fun and people want thier fun without the risk haveing a child at that moment. And they still want the option to have a child later if and when they wish .
All God had to do was install a simple on/off switch in the human reproductive organs and everyone would be all set.
The major sin in all of this is that the only person who really suffers is the child. The one person in this whole mess who never had the option to make the Choice to be born or not !!!
If you belive in God ask yourself this question, " Do you think Jesus would ever perform a abortion on a woman " ?
Personaly I think that if Jesus where to witness such a event taking place he would most likely go Postal on those people !
Which exactly summarises my position (Evangelical Christian FWIW) on these matters - I do not fully understand those who oppose abortion and euthanasia but are in favour of war and the death penalty (or indeed vice versa). ALL life is God-created and therefore of value and to be protected/preserved - and that includes animal life and the environment as well, although the question of non-human life having the same value as human is on that I am debating with myself at the moment, but that is a separate issue…
Grim
Would I? Where exactly are we speaking about? How about a cite?
In your quote:
I’m not sure exactly who the THEY are that you are refering to. The western religious mentality that I have belonged to my entire life, celebrates women and their abilities both inside and outside of the home.
What about those of us who do believe in God, but don’t believe in Jesus?
I’ve always thought it was strange that the Old Testament, which lays out the Law for the most minute details of life, doesn’t address abortion directly.
After all, abortion wasn’t unknown to people in Biblical times. Certain herbs were commonly known, and used, as abortificatients. Any woman seeking to end a pregnancy wouldn’t have had much trouble doing so.
If God finds abortion so abhorent, why didn’t He mention it? Certainly, He must have been aware it was practiced. He could have had Moses tack it on to the lengthy list of prohibitions in Deuteronomy, but for some reason, failed to mention it.
Has anyone pointed pointed out that there are christians, and then there are christians? I´m a prodestant myself and very “pro-choice” and it seems to me that most “pro-life” people are catholics or some other fundamentalist sects of christianity, no better than the muslims in their world view.
Personally I’ve never seen anything in the bible about abortion being wrong, and in my mind those who are trying to interpret God’s or Jesus’ words thusly are putting words in their mouths, and what kind of thing is that to do your God?
On the ethical side I really can’t see a reason why abortions shouldn’t be as legal and common as vasectamy, is a child really better off being born to a family that can’t support it or be sent to an orhpanage?
“The child could be the next mother Theresa”… sweet jesus, if God tells me my next child child will be a reincarnation of MT, I’ll seriously consider abortion. Mother Theresa was everything that is wrong with catholicism.
UselessGit, For the record, I’m usually much nicer than this. Your first paragraph shows everything that is wrong with organized religion and ignorance. Superiority is not an attractive trait in people or sects. Sweeping generalizations of Catholics, fundamentalists, the “no better than Muslims”. Big part of the world population you just slurred. Don’t you think if you were really a Protestant, you would know how to spell it? Yes, most of my Catholic, fundie and Muslim friends and acquaintances are pro-life, but many are reluctant to try to enforce that belief on other people.
Personally, I’ve never seen anything in the Bible about Protestants, but maybe I missed it. Is there anything about someone getting an abortion in the Bible?(I honestly don’t know)Show me an orphanage in the U.S. anyway where I can find a newborn baby up for adoption and I can find you thousands of interested people. I’m still working on the Mother Theresa comment. Let’s see she spent her life taking care of sick and hungry people. Shame on her. So much for tolerance. By the way, my religion-same as Gods. IWLN
Aw, come on, that’s not very nice . . . Maybe s/he was in a hurry.
I once accidently spelled human “hunman.” And I can *prove * I am one.
With respect to the verse cited by Lord Ashtar:
I’ve always found it a bit odd that this is used to argue against the morality of abortion. It reads, “Before I formed you in the womb I chose you.” Doesn’t this imply that human life begins prior to conception? God is, after all, saying that he chose the prophet Jeremiah before forming him in his mother’s womb. This seems too ridiculous to be taken literally. I would expect that anti-abortionists would be too embarrassed to bring up this verse at all; citing it as a major piece of evidence simply calls attention to the fact that their position has no clear biblical support.
Yeah, because it’s just that easy to walk into a clinic and get sterilized. :rolleyes: Trust me, darlin’, it’s NOT. It’s a long, horrible, uphill struggle to find a doc who won’t laugh you out of the office for the mere mention if you’ve never had a kid and are under 30 or so. I know this from bitter personal experience.
So I have two choices: I can forgo ever having sex with my husband on the off chance that our birth control might fail (even surgical sterilization isn’t 100%) and watch my marriage slowly wither and die, or I can have a normal marriage and live with the possibility of someday having to walk into an abortion clinic past a crowd of people telling me I’m an evil, murdering slut. No, being held hostage by a parasite and someone else’s morality for nearly a year is simply not an option.
BTW, did we read about the same Jesus? 'Coz the guy I read about was really big into the forgiveness and peace thing. Turning the other cheek, stopping a crowd from stoning an adulteress, all that sort of stuff. I don’t think going postal would have been in his repertoire.
Parasite… how nice.
You forgot your third option, have your husband get a vasectomy. Most doctors wont raise an eyebrow at that one. Have him enter his area code in the link provided. It’s an outpatient procedure.
She mentioned, quite correctly, that even that procedure is not perfect. Abstinance is the only %100 effective birth control, and women don’t always get to control that, should they be raped.
Well, since he’s also under thirty and childless, no snip for him either, I’m afraid. Trust me, we’ve explored the options in great depth.
I’m not a member of any church but I believe abortion is immoral. If it’s alive it has a “soul” whatever that means to you.
Uselessgit, Okay Lissa’s right about the spelling crack. I’m sorry I was ticked off over the automatic lumping together of people. Even though OP kind of did, it was at least an inquiry, not a slam. I know good and bad people in every walk of life. Take us as individuals. It’s more fair that way. Still wondering why Mother Theresa was so bad, but that wasn’t the question here, so I’ll leave it alone.
JasonFin, Human life didn’t begin before conception, but I believe our souls were formed before the earth. I am anti-abortion and if you haven’t noticed before, us “believers” don’t embarrass easily. I’m really not for laws against it, well yes I am, but don’t think it’s practical, it won’t change anything. Just wish it didn’t exist like alot of other negative life experiences.
If sex is the only thing holding your marrige together whats going to happen when your both 65 years old and not having sex ?
What if one of you has a terrible acceident and is injured and you cant have sex becasue of it.
Love should be what makes 2 people marry and not sex. But thats the real problem with most failed marriges these days becasue people got married becasue they thought they were in Love and were instead in Lust.
What if each child you had aborted actually did have a soul and when you die and go before your God you have to be accountable for those Souls, So you are going to tell God " but me and hubby wanted more sex you see so its ok right ?".
And sure Jesus might be the forgiving type but I do not think that should be a " Multi-pass to any sin " you wish to commit. And you have to ask for forgivness and mean it in your heart.
I can just hear you praying now " God please forgive me for aborting that parasite that was in me, if it turns out that it might have had a soul, Im just covering my bases here ok? Amen…"